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  1. #1
    Veteran Member DAP's Avatar
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    Nov 2001
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    1,191
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    From Orange County NY to Lincoln County ME
    Tractor
    JD LX288 and a B7800

    Default COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    kubota vs. Kioti

    Having put more than 10 and less than 24 hours on various kubota B series tractors (and a several hours on a couple of different L and Grand L series machines), I took a 60 mile ride to the nearest Kioti dealer. I spent an hour and and a half driving the new CK20, 25 and 30 HST machines with loaders. Here's my take on the 'other orange'.

    1. If you don't read the ENTIRE specification for each of these tractor makes, you will be confused, fooled or both.

    2. The Kioto CK series does NOT compare well with the Kubuta B series.

    Case in point, I thought casually that the CK25/30 machine would match up close to the B7800/B2910.

    This comparison is a poor one. Although I've read each of the specs more than once, it still didn't dawn on me how much more B-E-E-F-Y the Kioti machines are: B7800 weighs in at 1700+- lbs and the CK30 is almost 3100 lbs. They are bascially the same size, same tire size, very close in width/height but the Kioti outweighs the Kubota by nearly 1400 pounds!!!! Guess what, it is translated into it's feel and handling as well. The CK30 is really a Grand L 3130 comparison at the very least! FPM are all significantly higher in the Kioti as well.

    Too darned bad too, cause the L series and now I think the CK30 are too big for my needs.

    The CK25 is an exact clone of the CK30 except for the engine, it's displacement and a coupla hundred pounds less in weight.

    Anyone who might decide to tell you that fit and finish differences favor Kubota are either lying, ignorant, love to hear themselves talk babble or all three. The Kioti is a quality machine as good or better than the other orange, green or blue product.

    The only minutia I can come up with is the lack of a quarter-inching valve on the Kioti.

    This dealer was in western connecticut, so JUNKMAN, please PM me. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ...and has been selling Kioti's for over 8 years.

    For you CK20 owners out there, that is an unusual machine as far as size and weight go. Not sure where I'd place it compartively, but it looks like a B2410 sized machine (and I'll bet it weighs a lot more though I don't have the spec in front of me).

    Now, mind you, due to comparative marketing design, the Kioti's (CK25/30) suffer from the same problems most of the other CUTS do:

    1. Bad fuel filler location
    2. Poor ergonomics in lever/control placement for cruise and parking brake, FWD selector, etc.

    All in all, these machines are competitive with anything out there. This includes the accuracy of my prophesizing regarding price. I posted back in March that I thought Kioti would engage in some perception management and MSRP their new CK machines at or above the competition. This is now a fact in the NE region.

    I know this might lead to the continual debate regarding weight arguments in the manufacturing process. So be it.

    The other than the typically bad ergonomic design of some levers and rods, the operator station rivals the Blue machines and was terribly comfortable (although the seat didn't swivel).

    The CK20 DID have a rather bad tap in the engine, especially under load. I would like to have investigated that further with the mech - the machine was JUST put together that day - although he didn't PUT THE ENGINE TOGETHER! LOL

    Anyway, I came away both impressed and a little dissapointed (the power to weight ratio is eating at me a little).

    There you have it.

  2. #2
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    652
    Location
    Hereford, PA
    Tractor
    LK3054

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    I'll have more thoughts on this later I'll bet (right now I'm taking a water break from moving topsoil with the LK!), but a couple of things come to mind:

    The CK20 weighs 50% more than a B7510/7610.

    The quarter inching valve is not an advantage, it's a cost savings - note that the more expensive B's don't have it.

    Power to weight is real important in race cars, weight is the only thing providing traction on your tractor. Even with a 3000lb tractor + filled R4s, I still wish for more sometimes!

    I'm gald you took the time to go try them out & post! I too think the cost savings will begin to slip away now [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Veteran Member DAP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
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    1,191
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    From Orange County NY to Lincoln County ME
    Tractor
    JD LX288 and a B7800

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm gald you took the time to go try them out &amp; post! I too think the cost savings will begin to slip away now [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] )</font>

    Chris .. in this region, the cost savings is going going gone.

    I might be in a peculiar minority, but extra machine weight for me is something I'm trying to avoid, making the kubota's somewhat more attractive. I live in gushy-squishy land (and no, that's not a UK term for fornication!).


  4. #4
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    1,407
    Location
    monroe michigan, barton city soon
    Tractor
    NH TC 35 had, now a TC35DA LS25 lawnmower

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    Dap; Your right! Thats an expression you say when mushypeas are served. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

  5. #5
    Platinum Member
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    Feb 2004
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    652
    Location
    Hereford, PA
    Tractor
    LK3054

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    Weight has its advantages - and disadvantages! You certainly should pick the machine that best fits your requirements. Fortunately, you have many good choices!

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Steve_Miller's Avatar
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    Mar 2004
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    1,251
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Tractor
    2006 Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    Excellent post Doug,
    I did sort of the same thing before I bought, but had them deliver me a blue, orange and the other orange to my yard for me to try out on my terms. I too prefer the extra weight for the reason that I will not be doing any mowing with it. As for you I agree that Kioti lacks in lever placement but make up in the fit and finish. I was not happy with kubota's fit and finish as much as the Kioti. Another thing was the Kioti had a real altenator (40-50 amp) as opposed to the dynamo (14-15 amp) on the Kubota. I plan on putting lots of lights on for night work. This was another add on for Kubota which where I live was on top of the over $3000 difference already. As far as the blue tractor, I wasn't as comfortable with it at all. Maybe down the road I can put my words together to explain that feeling. The Kubota drive train had the best feel by far compared to the three I tried which by the way were all hydro's. In case some of you think I'm against Kubota, that can be no further from the truth as I just sold my B7200DT which I've had since 1986 (brand new). I did purchase the Kioti and it should be delivered this week some time.
    The three tractors were the B7610, CK20 and TC24DA all with FEL's. I decided on the CK20 gear version with FEL and Backhoe. Once I get the Kioti and use it for a while I will do a long post on what I think of it.

    Steve

  7. #7
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    457
    Location
    SW of Minneapolis, MN
    Tractor
    2003 Kubota L3430 HSTC

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    In engineering school they taught us to make it better/stronger with less weight/material.

    OrangeGuy

  8. #8
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    652
    Location
    Hereford, PA
    Tractor
    LK3054

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    So then the perfect tractor would be exceptionally strong and light as a feather? It would be funny to watch such a tractor try to dig anything! In fact, there is no point in designing out the weight, when the weight is a benefit. The optimum design is one that is fit for its intended purpose. The light weight tractors are optimized for a particular purpose, it just happens to be a different one than the heavier tractors. Failure to recognize that will result in people buying the wrong kind of tractor, and being disappointed.

  9. #9
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    3,949
    Location
    western,pa.
    Tractor
    Kioti DK 35

    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( In engineering school they taught us to make it better/stronger with less weight/material. )</font>

    Gee !!
    So I guess loading my tires for added stability and traction was a bad [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
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    Default Re: COMPARISON: Oranges and Oranges

    Chris, I think you made an excellent counterpoint.

    Weight does not equal strength, nor does mass equal strength. Weight is not good for tasks like mowing the lawn, however weight is good when using ground engaging equipment. Weight should not be confused with ballast. Ballast is weight in a specific place designed to enhance balance.

    Personally I like light tractors, but that is because of the way I use my tractors. I think your post very eloquently states that each of us has our own uses for our own machines, and each must decide which type of machine is best for our own uses.

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