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  1. #1
    Veteran Member bandit67's Avatar
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    Default Comparing Kubota to Case/NH SUBCompacts

    A while back, a TBN member asked me to make a comparison between the BX22/BX23 and the Case IH DX24E / NH TZ24DA subcompact models, as I own a Case DX24E and have quite a bit of seat time on a BX22, many times, in a side-by-side situation.

    Following is an excerpt from that original post:

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( As many have said, I don't think you can go wrong with either. I chose the Case because I preferred more of the Case features over the kubota.

    I preferred the dual hydro pedals over the treddle pedal (probably because all of my previous experience was with gear drive machines), but as time's gone by, I've gotten more accustomed to the Kubota pedal, and it doesn't bother me as much as it did when I first started with the new machines. I've gotten fairly comfortable with how to use it, and in certain circumstances, like driving with the pedal fully engaged for any sort of distance, I actually now prefer the Kubota treddle pedal.

    I still much prefer the Case curved loader arms, sloped hood, and slightly higher seating position over the Kubota, as I can see out in front of the machine much better. Both FELs seem very comparable - I haven't pushed the Kubota FEL as far as I have the Case, so I don't know exactly how they compare at the upper limits. I am very impressed with the strength of the Case FEL. As a small test, I've loaded 640 lbs of bagged concrete mix (some 200# over the listed limits), and was able to easily lift it full height - I was curious as to it's lift capacity, as I've strained it moving loads of stone. I prefer the Case for FEL work, so when I have both machines at my disposal, I switch back to my machine when I need to do a bunch of loader work.

    Both motors are very strong, but the Kubota SEEMS to have just a slight edge at idle, but the differences disappear at anything above idle. The Kubota's traction is significantly better with turfs than my machine was with turfs, but that's due to the weight of the backhoe - I'm sure that the Case with the Woods backhoe would equal the Kubota's traction capabilities.

    I prefer the larger 3pt hitch on my Case, as I have 3 different implements that I switch between. The Kubota 3pt hitch goes virtually unused by either of us. It will be interesting to compare the the hitches once we hook up my tiller to both machines for the side by side comparison.

    The Case &amp; NH have a big advantage with the 8 gallon fuel tank compared to the Kubota 5.5 gallon tank. Engine access is better on the Case &amp; NH - my neighbor removed his side panels to do some maintenance and never put them back on because he didn't want to have to keep pulling them off each time he wanted to get to the motor, so his Kubota doesn't look as pretty.

    Also, the orange paint definitely attracts more bees than the red paint does.

    With my neighbor owning a BX22, and my not thinking I'd actually have that much use for a backhoe, I really couldn't justify getting a BX23, so it came down to the BX2230 and the Case DX24E or NH TZ24, and the Case &amp; NH felt a little more comfortable to me. However, with the amount of use I've had for the backhoe, if one of us moves, then there is a 90% chance I will buy the Groundbreaker backhoe for my machine.

    Overall, the quality seems to be comparable with both machines. Both of our machines have experienced various minor parts breakage/failures that were nothing more than minor inconveniences. Both are very capable machines. I think in the end, when choosing one of these machines, it should simply come down to personal ergonomic comfort and price. Kubota has the edge if you are looking for a backhoe, but now that Woods has the Groundbreaker, the Case &amp; NH should be at least considered. )</font>

    Yesterday, I did some digging with both machines to put in some new crawl space at my house, which is going through a major renovation. I was switching back and forth between both machines, using my machine to do a lot of the loader digging, and the BX22 for all of the backhoe work. However, I also did some loader digging with the BX22, when it made sense to just turn the seat around and scoop up larger quantities of dirt with the FEL than the backhoe could do.

    Something I did notice when driving both machines down into the hole to scoop/dig dirt with the FEL, was that the BX22 hydro tranny seems to be significantly stronger than the Case DX24E hydro tranny. With the front of the tractor down in the hole, and the back end up near the top of the hole on a pretty steep incline, in 4wd and backing out from a dead stop, I found the BX tranny seemed to hook up and pull the machine with a loaded bucket out of the hole better than my machine did. There just seemed to be a lot more internal tranny slipping, and quite a bit more whine on my machine, as it struggled to back itself out of the hole. The differences are that the BX has turf tires, and another 350-400 lbs on the back end than my machine, and my machine has bar tread tires. I would think that if I had that extra weight on the back of my machine, it might struggle even more, but it's possible that had I had the weight of a backhoe on the Case, it may have caused the rear end to hook up a bit quicker and stronger. I'm sure a lot of the power was going to the heavier loaded front wheels on the Case that only had a 275 lb 60" rear blade on the back.

    But as both machines were equipped yesterday, the BX was better able to back up the steep ramp from a dead stop with a fully loaded bucket than the Case was. I think the BX22/23 really is a true small TLB, and seems very capable of handling a lot of the punishment that a TLB is subjected to. The more I use both machines, the more I wish I didn't have access to both, as it constantly makes me wish I could just take the strongest features of both machines and combine them into one awesome little tractor. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  2. #2
    Veteran Member bandit67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comparing Kubota to Case/NH SUBCompacts

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Something I did notice when driving both machines down into the hole to scoop/dig dirt with the FEL, was that the BX22 hydro tranny seems to be significantly stronger than the Case DX24E hydro tranny. With the front of the tractor down in the hole, and the back end up near the top of the hole on a pretty steep incline, in 4wd and backing out from a dead stop, I found the BX tranny seemed to hook up and pull the machine with a loaded bucket out of the hole better than my machine did. There just seemed to be a lot more internal tranny slipping, and quite a bit more whine on my machine, as it struggled to back itself out of the hole. The differences are that the BX has turf tires, and another 350-400 lbs on the back end than my machine, and my machine has bar tread tires. I would think that if I had that extra weight on the back of my machine, it might struggle even more, but it's possible that had I had the weight of a backhoe on the Case, it may have caused the rear end to hook up a bit quicker and stronger. I'm sure a lot of the power was going to the heavier loaded front wheels on the Case that only had a 275 lb 60" rear blade on the back. )</font>

    Here's a follow-up to this part of my previous post. I did a little digging again this weekend with my machine. This time, I had my Landpride 1550 tiller on the 3ph, which weighs in close to 500 lbs. Again, I was digging into a large hole that put the entire machine down into the hole, at a pretty steep angle. With the heavy tiller (almost twice the weight of my rear blade), my Case DX24E did not have the same trouble backing out of the hole as it did when I was digging the crawl space with the lighter rear blade on the 3ph.

    So, I've concluded, after multiple "test" situations, that weight on the back end of these little machines seems to be critical to their functioning as we would like them to. With the extra weight on the back of the Case, it was able to back out of the hole with the same amount of ease, immediate response, and nearly no hydro whine, as the BX22 did with the backhoe on.

    I no longer have questions as to the strength of the Case hydro tranny. It is clearly an issue of having enough weight to counterbalance the amount of power that the machine is trying to put to the ground.

  3. #3
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comparing Kubota to Case/NH SUBCompacts

    Bandit . . . interesting observation about the weight of the tiller versus the weight of the rear blade. While I don't have a sub-compact, I have noticed the same thing. BALANCE seems to be the real key to tractors, if you are light on one end you are going to see diminished performance all the way around.

    Good to hear you figured out that your problem is as easily solved as tossing some more ballast on the back end. Do you have a weight box? Are your rear tires filled? What type of back blade did you use for ballast before switching to the tiller, and what is its weight?


  4. #4

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    Default Re: Comparing Kubota to Case/NH SUBCompacts

    Thanks for the update Bandit! I'm still trying to get the CFO on board for the TZ24.

    Did you ever figure out if you had problem with your PTO that you mentioned in this post ?

    Patrick

  5. #5
    Veteran Member bandit67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comparing Kubota to Case/NH SUBCompacts

    OK, looks like I've got a few questions to answer. First off, to answer Bob's questions:
    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Do you have a weight box? )</font>
    No, I just use one of my three implements.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Are your rear tires filled? )</font>
    No, I'm a little concerned with how it will affect the mowing, as the back end seems heavier than the front end (seems odd) when loader and rear blade are on (this is based on the rear end packing freshly filled dirt better than the front - I'd expect the motor and loader to weigh down the front more, but that's not what I've found to be the case).

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( What type of back blade did you use for ballast before switching to the tiller, and what is its weight? )</font>
    Rear blade is a Midwest 60" with side tilt (I think it weighs around 275 lbs.)

    The problem with the PTO was that the engage lever mechanism somehow got out of adjustment. The dealer cracked the case open, and found the clutches to be in perfect shape. I used the tiller on some hard-packed, dry clay this weekend, and it was working perfectly.

    The loader is stronger on the Case/NH subs than the kubota, but you need plenty of weight on the back end to utilize all of the power of the loader. I was pretty impressed with the tractor's ability to get some good sized trees off my pickup and around the yard, once I had enough weight on the 3ph.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Comparing Kubota to Case/NH SUBCompacts

    Thanks for the updated info - it is always interesting to hear about tractor to tractor comparisons. You mentioned that you think the loader is stronger on the Case than the kubota - do you think that it is just stronger all around, or is it stronger on say bucket curl specifically? I am wondering because a stronger loader is one thing I really wish my BX23 had. Every once in a while I think about upgrading the loader cylinders or doing something to get more capacity out of it.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member bandit67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comparing Kubota to Case/NH SUBCompacts

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( You mentioned that you think the loader is stronger on the Case than the kubota - do you think that it is just stronger all around, or is it stronger on say bucket curl specifically?)</font>

    Bucket curl seems pretty close, but I think the Case may be just a bit better - however, I'd still like to see stronger bucket curl on mine. Overall, the loader on the Case is stronger, as the lift hydraulics seem noticeably stronger than the Kubota. Problem is, I regularly wish my FEL was stronger yet, so I guess no matter how strong your FEL is, you'll find situations where you wish it was just a bit stronger. There have been times when I was using the backhoe on the BX22, and wished it was a little stronger. There were also times when I was using a rented JD 110 TLB on a few occasions, and wished that backhoe was stronger. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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