More tractor life expectancy - but not the motor?

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Drivetrains and gears are suffering failures before most of the electronics and plastics.. )</font>

Um.. but.. how does that figure in with parts availability in the far future with good tractor longevity.

In other words.. in oh.. say.. 50 years.. are you gonna be able to run down to (insert dealer) tractor co, and pick up that electronic thingamabob for your old hulk?

Loking at my fleet of old iron from the 40's till the 70's... I am waaaaaaaaaaay glad there isn't much electronics on thm. Funny enough... my 1975 ford 5000 and my 2002 NH 7610s are very similar tractors... not much mor ethan metal hoods, with engine/tranny/diffy.. no fance electronics. About the biggest difference (electronic ) id the 7610s has an alternator, vs the genny n the 5000. Dash is nearly identical.. has same gauges too.. And I'm not woried as much about mechanical parts support... vs electronics parts support..

Soundguy

 

[HGM]

That could be a very valid point. I do find it hard to believe that you wouldnt be able to find those parts though. Just like you can find sheetmeteal and hard parts for allot of 50yr old tractors, its a bussiness, someone will support it.. However, I also believe that this is where an American company may have better luck than say a Chineese. Japaneese will likely fair better because of the long term relationship they have with our MFG's.

In other words, can you find parts for a 15yr old Yugo?I wouldnt even want to try. Bet you can find anything for a '64 1/2 Mustang or even a Model T for that matter, all the way to the correct nuts and bolts.. In the days of the internet and espessially eBay, you can find just about anything you need for anything made. And if you add to the fact that components tend to last longer, I wouldnt sweat it.

I tend to keep up on this type of advancement for work. So with the proper training I'm not the least bit intimidated by the electronics. Guys that grew up and had allot of experience with older tech, would run circles arround me if we were talking about that kind of stuff. Even though its technically easier, my mind is tuned to the electronic controls making it easier to me. I can understand if someone was self taught on electronic systems having reservations about all the "magic smoke" in those components. It is a good concern,because if you let the smoke out, it wont work anymore. But with the right info, its not a big deal.

 

[jinman]

Anybody have a transistor radio from the 60's? If you do, I bet the thing works fine except for maybe the batteries. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My point to add to this is that transistor/solid state electronics tend to fail early or last forever in properly designed/protected circuits.

How many of us worry about alternator regulators going out? Sure it happens, but "newer-better" designs tend to replace these. I have faith that in the future there will be replacements for plastic and electronics. I just don't worry about it. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[mikim]

<font color="blue"> Anybody have a transistor radio from the 60's? </font> Yeah... and it's an 8 Transistor! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif (AM only) /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Big deal when I was about 12 ... tied it to my handlebars. It's in my closet today - You make me wonder if it works ... haven't had batteries in it for years. I'llhave to try it /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Along the same lines, todays "high tech" tractors tend to be "updated" every couple or three years. Older models would hang around, relatively unchanged, for years, even decades. In the future, will there be an ample supply of "bells and whistle parts"? Or will the dealers and manufacturers be able to keep up with all the various items?

My grandfather, my father, and now myself managed to farm without cruise control on any tractors. All these high tech, "fly by wire" modern machines still have to operate in a not-so-high tech, sometimes wet and dirty world. Most of the modern tractors are still new enough that they get the dry side of the shed roof. When they get to be #2 or #3 tractors, and are left sitting out in the barnyard, will they be able to withstand that sort of environment? I just can't see todays wonder-toys being maintained 'till they're 50 or 60 years old.

I can see my 30 year old tractors (I'm using now) still plugging along in another 30 or 50 years.

THREE CHEERS FOR THE OLD IRON!

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Anybody have a transistor radio from the 60's? If you do, I bet the thing works fine except for maybe the batteries. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My point to add to this is that transistor/solid state electronics tend to fail early or last forever in properly designed/protected circuits.

How many of us worry about alternator regulators going out? Sure it happens, but "newer-better" designs tend to replace these. I have faith that in the future there will be replacements for plastic and electronics. I just don't worry about it. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )</font>

But - when one of those 8 transistors breaks - _where_ do you find a replacement? All surface mounted chips these days - no one has the manufaturing to _make_ another transistor. you are done for.

An electronic part becomes outdated & dead. They are replaced with better different.

Metal parts can always be machined. Bearings can be found at Napa.

Electronics change over time, & no one can remake the old style - it is gone.

My planter monitor was made at a manufaturing shop 30 miles from me. It was made in the mid 1970s. Two years ago a male connector broke on the tractor unit, and also same connector broke on the planter juntion box. The plant said they can fix the tractor unit. The unit on the planter is a globe of epoxy, and they said can't refab it, and none have been available for 20 years. So, anything that goes wrong with that expoxyed box, I'm looking for a new $1000 planter monitor - even if a $5 connector shears off. The old electronics are - DEAD.

Mice love my combine. They have eaten up yards of wire on it. They never have eaten up any of the metal frame or bearings. Plastic & electronics are just more fragil than metal. Sunshine, mice, age - just harder on the plastic involved.

Ever try to get an old vinyl record player fixed? No parts any more - transistors are out, no parts, not worth the effort.

I don't see anything remotely resembling the electronics being available in 20+ years. Your tractor is dead.

Cars are built to wear out in 20 years. There are millions of the same made. That will work with repair supplies vs use.

Tractors are made in smaller numbers, so no one will be interested in keeping parts around. Not enough volume.

I can't imagine the electronics being available to keep some of the newer machines running.

I farm with a 1947, 1954, 1956, 1957, 1977, 1979, & 1999(I think, not sure when the 1720 was made actually?) tractors, a 1977 combine. They work well, do the job, and can be - have been - repaired & rebuilt several times over. I have a low iron per acre cost with these machines.

Will _not_ be possible with the new electronics machines. Parts will be gone, machine will be scrap.

Certainly the electronics provide value, with better efficiencies, ease of use, options. I'm not saying the electronics are worthless. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif However, they make the machine far more complicated, and obviously it will break more often & sooner with more complexity to it. Considering that electronics totally change from generation to generation and can't be made on a shop bench - it stands to reason anything depending upon complex electronics will be junk when those electronics fail.

Like my planter monitor.

Or your transistor radio.

I can depend upon my 1947 tractor. It breaks, I can have it back in the field in 3 days if need be. Same with my 1977 combine.

I can't depend on something that does not have parts available.

--->Paul

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( will there be an ample supply of "bells and whistle parts"? Or will the dealers and manufacturers be able to keep up with all the various items?
)</font>

My biggest concern, is the dash on some of these new tractors are based on the alternator.. that is.. the tach is picked up off the alternator.. not mechanically or even engine sensor.

The tach on my old 5000 is a mechanical drive off the generator.. that in itself was a bit of a problem.. though someone did finaly make an alternator with a correct tach drive.. .. if you can afford it...

As far as electrical components.. as long as it is not a miniturized engine sensor or something to that effect.. I can build it if i have a schematic / technical spec sheet, and access to the discreet components.. etc.

Soundguy

Soundguy

 

[Bob_Young]

I'd say with the electronics they're using now; if they survive the first 10 years trouble free, they'll probably outlast the rest of the tractor. Chips/transistors don't wear out and well designed circuits protect them from most electrical threats. With reasonable care, replacement/repair won't be an issue....with a couple of big exceptions: rodents and fire. The wiring harness, not the electronics per se, is very vulnerable to both of these threats.

They've got to come up with rodent repellant insulation or coating. The toothsome critters can reduce the best electronics to junk.

A birds nest under the hood followed by a small fire that scorches the paint on the hood will be more than an inconvenience if it takes out some of the wiring harness.

Harness availability is bound to be poor 20 years down the road and something cobbed together with crimp on butt splices will be a nightmare on a sophisticated machine.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Chips/transistors don't wear out )</font>

Respectfully.. I'd have to disagree with you.

Power cycles .. off/onn states and inrush are the detrimental times for an electronic device like a multi-transistored chip.

I don't worry too much about the basic discreet components.. like single packaged parts.. but IC's are iffy about heat and power cycles in the extremes and long term.. etc....

Soundguy

 

[SkyPup]

Our 1978 Apple II+ still runs great after tens of thousands of boot ups and close to thirty years of operation.

Is any tractor manufacturer using tubes instead of transistors in their electronics these days? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif