Tires Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

[gordon21]

Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

I have been reading dozens of posts about foam filled tires for several months. I still don't know exactly what "foam" you are talking about. One poster said it would take something like 643# of foam to fill his tire. Is this stuff denser than concrete?? I know there must be lots of lurkers who want to know the same thing. I am having trouble trying to imagine any kind of foam that would need 643# to fill a tire. That sounds more like 100 cubic feet or more of the stuff.

Is this open cell rigid stryo foam, closed cell flexible foam like in life jackets, liquid rubber that hardens, a coating like the Rhino stuff for truckbeds, miniature little plastic beads the size of BB's or what? It sure would be a big help if someone could post a pix of a chunk of this foam. Several posters mentioned about a dollar a # for foam. Several people mentioned that the foam weighs more than their previous liquid fill. Foam that is denser than water or CaCl??? Foam heavier than water?????

 

[jjcc246]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

the tires I had that were "foam filled" had a black solid rubber type of filling. It filled the entire inner tire and when the tire was shot (do to thread loss, not punctures) the tire had to be cut off the rim. but I must say, if weight isn's a problem well worth it.

 

[gordon21]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

So a "foamed" tire essentially becomes a soft solid rubber tire with some limited compressability? Sorta like the tires you see on forklifts except with a 6-10" high profile??? Does the increased overall hardness accelerate wear?

 

[gordon21]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

If these are solid rubber, why don't they sell them pre-made that way and assembled with split rims that merely bolt together to hold the solid tire? It would seem like an easy sale to sell a guaranteed puncture proof tire if I were Goodyear or Michelin.

 

[vaj]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

It does not become a soft rubber tire as you mention. It is quite hard. I always laugh at the term foam since it is like rock. I did it to the front wheels of a 2wd jd310d backhoe for the sole purpose of weight. I was sick of doing whelies all over the place. If you provide the tire size, they should be able to tell you in advance the weight added per tire. It was suggested to me and I listened, to get new tires at the same time. I do not notice any extra wear but common sense tells me the more weight rubber bears, all else being equal, it will wear faster.

 

[pajoube]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

What about the green slim you can buy at Sears and put into tires? Is that any good?
PJ

 

[mikim]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

<font color="blue">What about the green slim you can buy at Sears and put into tires? Is that any good? </font> Not so far in my experience. I'm sorry I ever put it in. It's going to make a mess getting it out. And it seemingly does no good whatsoever with my thorns. --Others mileage may vary--

 

[Billy_S]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

Supposedly, the foam is designed to approximate the deflection of an air filled tire. I didn't have very many hours on my BX2230, when I had the tires foam filled, so I really don't have a valid basis for comparison, but it rides like a log wagon. Not horrible, but definitely stiff.

I doubt there would be much of an effect on wear, but considering the price of the foam, which is often significantly higher than the price of tires, I would suggest foam filling only new, or practically new tires.

The rear tires on my Kubota are 26X1200-12. The foam to fill them weighted 138 pounds. According to the Goodyear Farm Tire Data book, if I filled them with calcium, at 3.5 lbs per gallon, the weight of the fluid would be 106 pounds. At 5 lbs calcium per gallon, the weight would be 107 pounds. So clearly, the foam does weigh more than fluid. The fluid fill data is at 75% full, which is the industry standard.

Hope this helps.

 

[bigfrog]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

I just had my tires filled with a product called TyrFil. It is a urethane rubber. I did not see them do the filling process, but they described it as injecting a couple of liquid materials into the tire that when mixed and given time to set, form the solid rubber material. It is designed to deflect, or compress, like a tire filled with air. It is heavy though. I have posted an update on the thread called "Foam Tire Fill Price?" This stuff is a liquid at first, and then it sets up. It is very heavy.

Here's the link to the mfg site where you can read more about it:

http://www.hyperlastna.com/products/tyrfil/main.htm

 

[adlertom]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

Is this open cell rigid stryo foam, closed cell flexible foam like in life jackets, liquid rubber that hardens, a coating like the Rhino stuff for truckbeds, miniature little plastic beads the size of BB's or what? It sure would be a big help if someone could post a pix of a chunk of this foam. Several posters mentioned about a dollar a # for foam. Several people mentioned that the foam weighs more than their previous liquid fill. Foam that is denser than water or CaCl??? Foam heavier than water?????

I would also be curious to know exactly what "foam" is. I did check into both "foam" and Tyrfil. For my front tires, I was told that "foam" would add 125 pounds of weight to each tire. Tyrfil would only add about 85 pounds.

According to the manufacturer's web site, TyrFil is "a urethane rubber product guaranteed to flat-proof pneumatic tires."

So, shall I assume that "foam" must be something heavier than urethane rubber?

 

[PineRidge]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

It does not become a soft rubber tire as you mention. It is quite hard. I always laugh at the term foam since it is like rock.

I'm by no means an expert on foam. That said I had all 4 tires on our finish mower filled to eliminate repeated flat tires. The tires still have bounce and compression, they are not rock hard, and all flat tires have since been eliminated. I'm a happy camper.

 

[ovrszd]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

I'm by no means an expert on foam. That said I had all 4 tires on our finish mower filled to eliminate repeated flat tires. The tires still have bounce and compression, they are not rock hard, and all flat tires have since been eliminated. I'm a happy camper.

It sounds like we have two completely different products and results being discussed in this thread.

PineRidge, do you know the technical name for the product that was put in your tires?? Yours sounds like it gives the best results as far as the tire still having compression and stopping the leaks.

I wouldn't want a product that made my tires hard as a rock.

 

[PineRidge]

Re: Exactly what is the \"foam\" in foam filled tires

It sounds like we have two completely different products and results being discussed in this thread.

PineRidge, do you know the technical name for the product that was put in your tires?? Yours sounds like it gives the best results as far as the tire still having compression and stopping the leaks.

I wouldn't want a product that made my tires hard as a rock.

Really can't tell you. I took my tires to a established tire repair/sales center in this area and they did the rest. I had never seen foamed tires before I read about them from this site.

 

[BTDT]

Re: Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

There is a place in Dallas close to Parkland Hospital that fills tires. It usually takes a couple of days or longer (to give time to set up), and sometimes it takes longer due to the fact that they save up tires to be done (won't do just 2 tires, not cost effective for them). They remove tube (if it has one), and poke a hole in tire with a nail to give air an escape. They then inject through the valvestem until the stuff starts coming out the nail hole. Tires have to remain laying on floor or suspended from floor (or otherwise you will have a permant flat spot where tire rests on floor). Puncture/flat proof tire when done, but heavy. A word of caution here--HEAVY!! This can be bad on front wheel bearings. This is the only bad thing I have heard from someone who has had this done.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Re: Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

...
A word of caution here--HEAVY!! This can be bad on front wheel bearings. This is the only bad thing I have heard from someone who has had this done.

You lost me with the wheel bearings thing. You say you "heard" from someone it was bad on wheel bearings. For the life of me, I can't see how the weight of the wheels/tires could directly affect the load on the wheel bearings. That load comes from the weight of the chassis and things attached to the chassis. The extra weight of the wheels and tires are reacted directly by the ground and don't go through the bearings.

On the other hand, if the increased wheel weight allows greater traction then being able to pull harder would cause a higher bearing load in the pulling wheels. But if that overloads the bearings, you'd have to be running pretty close to the edge, even without the weighted wheels.

 

[BTDT]

Re: Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

You lost me with the wheel bearings thing. You say you "heard" from someone it was bad on wheel bearings. For the life of me, I can't see how the weight of the wheels/tires could directly affect the load on the wheel bearings. That load comes from the weight of the chassis and things attached to the chassis. The extra weight of the wheels and tires are reacted directly by the ground and don't go through the bearings.

On the other hand, if the increased wheel weight allows greater traction then being able to pull harder would cause a higher bearing load in the pulling wheels. But if that overloads the bearings, you'd have to be running pretty close to the edge, even without the weighted wheels.

This was a City of Dallas mechanic who had tires filled on some city equipment, but I think it was smaller stuff like riding mowers. They don't have much for bearings to begin with, but mowers were always in shop with flats (lazy operators not wanting to work). On a full sized tractor might not be an issue.. but if your spindle breaks, I told you so.

 

[ovrszd]

Re: Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

You lost me with the wheel bearings thing. You say you "heard" from someone it was bad on wheel bearings. For the life of me, I can't see how the weight of the wheels/tires could directly affect the load on the wheel bearings. That load comes from the weight of the chassis and things attached to the chassis. The extra weight of the wheels and tires are reacted directly by the ground and don't go through the bearings.

On the other hand, if the increased wheel weight allows greater traction then being able to pull harder would cause a higher bearing load in the pulling wheels. But if that overloads the bearings, you'd have to be running pretty close to the edge, even without the weighted wheels.

I deal with the "heavy tire/wheel" thing all the time with my Jeeps and oversized equipment. The only affect it has on bearings is the gyro affect when you change directions or the bounce if they are unbalanced. What it affects more seriously is the ball joints and drivetrain from additional traction.

I think the only affect on our tractors would be the gained tractional stress on the drivetrain and/or the addtional overall weight of the tractor for floatation purposes. I don't plan to go fast enough with my tractor to get the unbalanced wheel hop or gyro affect.

 

[AlanB]

Re: Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

I believe there to be many different "fills" that the tires are filled with. No different then there are many different "foams" out there.

My personal experience was we were knocking the tires off the rim constantly on our Pro Master 100 Gravely ZTR (not enough trail in the casters in my opinion) but the tire would be sideways, then you would go forward and basicly drive the tire off the rim, worked better then any bead breaker I have owned, and always at the most inoppurtune moments and locations. It was also a true bugger to get them to take air at those moments and re-inflate.

As I wanted to be "done" with this problem, I took them to the local tire shop that handled "foam filling" of the tires, and they "filled" them, quite expensive and quite heavy, and had about zero "give" The tires ended up being like a solid rubber tire, in other words not foamy and squishy, but solid.

How did that work out,,,,, NOT SO WELL......

Wheel bearings, yep, instead of having the suspension that the air in the tires gives, you directly transferred a lot of the shock loads direct to the bearings, commenced to chewing them out.

Caster yokes,,,, yep, started bending the crud out of them, at $125 a pop that got old REAL FAST.

Finally ended up buying new wheels, yokes, tires, and adding tubes.

If you look at skidsteer tires there are solid ones that are like forklift solid tires, hard rubber, then there are the ones that have holes drilled through them horizontally so they have "give" for the offroad use. (I was told that the solid rubber ones transmit a lot more shock to the driveline) and I believe it.

I bet there are many types of foam to fill the tires with, just as there are many brands of puncture seal such as slime, and I bet many of our different results have to do with the product that was used.

 

[BTDT]

Re: Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

You lost me with the wheel bearings thing. You say you "heard" from someone it was bad on wheel bearings. For the life of me, I can't see how the weight of the wheels/tires could directly affect the load on the wheel bearings. That load comes from the weight of the chassis and things attached to the chassis. The extra weight of the wheels and tires are reacted directly by the ground and don't go through the bearings.

On the other hand, if the increased wheel weight allows greater traction then being able to pull harder would cause a higher bearing load in the pulling wheels. But if that overloads the bearings, you'd have to be running pretty close to the edge, even without the weighted wheels.

I think heavy goes both ways, whether it's the larger/heavier tire or larger vehicle. Otherwise, you would have the same size bearings in 1/2 and 1 ton trucks, and that's not the case. As someone has stated, when you take air out of tire, and fill with something semi-solid or solid, the shock value goes way up.

 

[markct]

Re: Exactly what is the "foam" in foam filled tires

well my only firsthand experience with foamed tires is on our JD 544 waste handler loader at work, it has the foam filled tires and the first thing that struck me about it when i drove it down the road when it was brand new was that it rode a little rougher than a simular jd loader with air tires that i have operated many times, but while the bumps were more noticable there was almost none of the bounce that often happens with a loader when operating at high speed on the road. the ride was stiffer but not bad realy, alot better than the bobbing and bouncing of most loaders. now the other spare machine we have is a old cat loader, simular size i forget the model number, and it has solid rubber tires and the ride is awfull even at low speeds using it to load garbage on a concrete floor ya feel every bump