Insurance What insurance company do you use?

[mars1952]

"If you read the articles you attached, you will note the a reasonable person would come to the conclusion that the insurance company(and me, because I pay premiums) was taken advantage of in both cases." dynasim

Hi Chris: I am a reasonable person and I have read all of the the attachments and in my opinion the insurance company should have paid and not spent your hard earned premiums on the lawsuits. Perhaps if they had settled out of court before lawyers got involved everyone could have been happy for a lot less money. In the case where the plaintiff received money the lawyer got a big chunk of it. I'm not looking to make a killing on an insurance claim I just don't want to have to hire a lawyer if I ever do have to file a claim. Also so what that you only have liability insurance? Is it somehow more noble to not insure yourself and your positions? If I pay for an insurance policy I expect to be paid if the situation arises and I know from personal experience that some insurance companies look for any excuse to not pay or pay less.
Marshall
Here is another one.
Farm Bureau vs Allen.
N.C. Farm Bureau Mut. Ins. Co. v. Allen, 146 NC App 539 (00-1407) 10/16/2001

 

[Chuckatuck]

The first case is about whether FB committed "bad faith" when they allegedly failed to pay or offer a reasonable amount -- thus forcing frivolous litigation. The case had enough confusing facts that the Ct. of Appeals gave Farm Bureau a free pass. Mind you, FB did pay the full 75K based on the court verdict.

The second case dealt with exclusions in the policy. Again, in "our" context, this is something that has been discussed a few times about which policies will cover your tractor whether on your property, off your property, while doing "paid for" work, etc.

A great example is State Fraud's denying the many claims in Miss. & Alabama based on "wind-driven water" vs. flooding. Now I read they are discontinuing writing policies there because they are being held to account.

The last case, FB v. Allen, et. al., revolves around a homeowner's policy exclusion for "intentional" acts. (see the 2nd case).

I am insured with Farm Bureau in Va. I deal with their representatives and find them to be o.k. One other perk of FB membership is you can get discounted "farm supplies" thru FB or Grainger (at least in Va.).

Just remember, an insurance company is NOT there to "help" you--contrary to all those "good hands" and "neighbors" out there. I've seen people who've paid premiums for 20+ years get dumped on. Every time you pay a premium, they are betting that you DON'T make a claim so they can profit--you are betting that you WILL make a claim or suffer a loss.

It's really that simple in the end. Go with FB.

 

[dynasim]

I don't have time to re-read it now, but I came to the conclusion that FB did not pay in the first case. I will re-do it when I get a chance. Note that the person suing was not the premium payer.

In the second item, the accident was a personal accident, in a vehicle that was covered under personal insurance. The premium payer was sued, and settled for, paraphrased, "as much as you can get from my insurance companies". The award was not based on the damages. They were able to attach to a separate business policy, on top the insurance on the vehicle, due to an ambiguity in the policy.

How one could justify a settlement the gives "as much as you can get from my insurance companies" is beyond me, and ought to be illegal. Insurance is meant to to recover damages, not extract riches. If he was damaged 75,000, he ought to have been assigned that in the first place, and if it wan't coverable under any policy, the premium payer should have had to put up the money. I ended up paying the guy an extra 50K because of an obtuse ambiguity. Note that the guy that got the money was not a premium payer.

People think that extracting money from insurance companies, and the government, it a free ride with no victims. It isn't. I am paying for it.

 

[dynasim]

Also so what that you only have liability insurance? Is it somehow more noble to not insure yourself and your positions? If I pay for an insurance policy I expect to be paid if the situation arises and I know from personal experience that some insurance companies look for any excuse to not pay or pay less.
Marshall
QUOTE]

I expect Insurance companies to live up to the terms of the contract, and I make sure I know what the contract means. I didn't say I was noble. Only keeping liability is a way to add several thousand dollars a year to ones income, almost for free. I do have insurance on my house, as I can't afford to lose it. What I was pointing out is that I am definitely not pro-insurance, nor pro-insurance company, just as I am not pro-tax(which is what insurance premiums are).

Because I only have liability, I am more careful when I drive, I am careful to whom I lend my vehicles to, I live with small dents and windshield divits, I buy moderately priced vehicles, etc. etc. etc.

I have seen way more people cheat insurance companies than I have seen insurance companies cheat people. I was going to give some examples, but I do not wish to inflame. This is just a big pet-peeve of mine.

Chris

 

[Jstpssng]

Also so what that you only have liability insurance? Is it somehow more noble to not insure yourself and your positions? If I pay for an insurance policy I expect to be paid if the situation arises and I know from personal experience that some insurance companies look for any excuse to not pay or pay less.
Marshall
QUOTE]

I expect Insurance companies to live up to the terms of the contract, and I make sure I know what the contract means. I didn't say I was noble. Only keeping liability is a way to add several thousand dollars a year to ones income, almost for free. I do have insurance on my house, as I can't afford to lose it. What I was pointing out is that I am definitely not pro-insurance, nor pro-insurance company, just as I am not pro-tax(which is what insurance premiums are).

Because I only have liability, I am more careful when I drive, I am careful to whom I lend my vehicles to, I live with small dents and windshield divits, I buy moderately priced vehicles, etc. etc. etc.

I have seen way more people cheat insurance companies than I have seen insurance companies cheat people. I was going to give some examples, but I do not wish to inflame. This is just a big pet-peeve of mine.

Chris

Thousands of dollars per year? That's more than I've ever paid, even for full coverage.
I save about $400 per year by only carrying liability on my pickup. I am also in a low risk category, as I have had just 1 claim in 30+ years of driving.

 

[dynasim]

The last time I had full coverage(10 yrs ago), the premium was >$125 per month for a $22,000 vehicle. You are correct that I probably overstated the car insurance differential(it is on the order of 2000/yr with two cars, I am married), but the general philospophy of not owning anything I can't afford to lose yields much higher returns.

I also have high deductable medical insurance that saves ~200/month, and I am not at any more risk than my wife, who has employer supplied insurance that costs a lot. The upper level of the benefit is the same. When we were both on personal medical insurance, the differential was significantly higher.

Sorry about the specific mis-statement, but the general concept is true.

Chris

 

[mars1952]

"I make sure I know what the contract means" Chris
How exactly do you manage this? I am thinking of taking my insurance contracts to my lawyer! I am above average intelligence and have a college education as well as bunch of real world experience and I am not certain what my policies really cover. That is what I meant when I posted the links. The insurance company argued the point of coverage. In the one case where the man shot his friend thinking he was an intruder. The insurance company claimed he shot him on purpose.

"Only keeping liability is a way to add several thousand dollars a year to ones income, almost for free. Chris"
Except for liability coverage I am self insured as much as possible. For the most part I only insure the items where I can’t bare the loss. For example our houses and late model cars are fully insured. If you save the money you would have paid on insurance long enough you can afford to take a loss from time to time and still be ahead in the long run. I have never purchased extended warranties on anything. The other day I purchased a 320Gig hard drive for about $100 after rebates at Office Max. The sales clerk cheerfully asked if I would like to by a 2 year extended warranty (essentially a type of insurance) for only $30.00. That's 30% of the purchase price! I cheerfully replied that in two years the hard drive would be obsolete and worth less than $30 so no thanks.

" “I have seen way more people cheat insurance companies than I have seen insurance companies cheat people.” Chris"

Here is an example of how I was recently cheated by my insurance company. I was involved in a one car low speed accident in my 2001 Ford F-350 SD 4X4. State Farm directed me to one of their body shops. I didn’t need to get estimates all I had to do was drop the truck off and they would handle everything. That sounds great right? Well it was except for one not so small thing. The body shop did a great job. They even fixed some small blemishes that weren’t caused by the accident. They also replaced one of the tires when really only the wheel needed to be replaced. I didn’t complain since I wasn’t paying and I didn’t choose the shop. All of these little things pushed the bill to just under $2000.00. It turns out that in North Carolina if the damage is over $1800.00 the insurance company is bound by law to increase your insurance rates. It made no difference that I had been with State Farm for over 20 years without a claim. Who do you think pushed for this fine law? My insurance rates have been increase for 3 years. The total increase works out to more than the repair bill.

Some people commit insurance or welfare fraud or indulge in frivolous lawsuits but most people do not. Most people are fair and honest but some people cheat, lie and steal. People run insurance companies and I would like to know what type of people my insurance company is run by.
Marshall

 

[Giles Gurley]

For 30 years I have had State Farm. Seems like every six months they send me a flyer in with the policy payment receipt. Every time the coverage goes up for some situations but goes down for others. Seems like I am getting less coverage each time. In my last statement they informed me that if I have an accident with another S.F. insured vehicle my full deductible applies. Previously it was only $100 Also if I , for example, back into a light post and do damage, car is covered under collision, not comp.--- $ 500.00 deductible. This is only a small list. I have discounts for accident free and multi-car, and a non cancellable policy. PAY MORE AND GET LESS time for me to do some shopping.

 

[dynasim]

I have in no way defended State Farm in any of my posts. I am also not defending Farm Bureau, except for the two opinions which you posted.

I agree that one should not trust insurance companies. However, it is unlikely that they wanted the bill to be high. They do want your premiums to be high, but paying more to do that doesn't help them.


It is the nature of people(for instance your body shop) to charge as much as they can. As you said, you would not have replaced the tire, and it shouldn't have been replaced. It is unlikely(not impossible, though) that State Farm told the body shop to increase his charge to >$1800. What likely happened is the body shop saw a "free" ride and got on, because it "didn't hurt anybody". Well, it did. It hurt you. He probably thought he was doing you a favor. After all, he fixed things for you that should not have been charged to your insurance(cheated the insurance company).

The body shop, and the plaintiffs in those opinions had the same motive, a free ride(in my opinion) at the expense of the insurance company.

Insurance companies are necessary, not necessarily good, just like government. As I suggested, I would google info on how State Farm operates.

It is interesting that you and I generally agree, and only narrowly and specifically disagree.

Chris

 

[dynasim]

I want to be clear that I did not insinuate that you cheated the insurance company.

Chris