grapple connections

[sparkyjc]

I have a Kubota 3430 w FEL I want to add a grapple on my bucket.
How do I connect the clyinder up.
I have been told to add the electric silenoid valve in the power beyond line, just split it and add the silenoid valve. I know how to do the electric part but not the hydraulics. I have also been told thats it is open center, is that correct?

 

[daTeacha]

There's a recent thread on the NH forum, I think about this. Exactly how you plumb it in depends on what you prefer. Mine is controlled by a valve that can also operate my rear remotes. I had a T put in each line for the rear remotes and a line run from there to a set of QCs where the FEL mounts and all the QCs for the loader are. Then another set of lines runs to the center of the brace behind the bucket ending in a second set of QCs. From that I have another set of lines to the grapple itself.

I have no need to run the grapple from the joystick I use for the bucket, but lots of guys prefer it that way. I might have, too, had I known it could be done when I ordered my tractor and grapple, but what I have works just fine. I have a lot of control over how much and how hard the grapple closes and opens by operating the valve set up next to the valve for the 3 point.

 

[MadReferee]

I have a Kubota 3430 w FEL I want to add a grapple on my bucket.
How do I connect the clyinder up.
I have been told to add the electric silenoid valve in the power beyond line, just split it and add the silenoid valve. I know how to do the electric part but not the hydraulics. I have also been told thats it is open center, is that correct?

You can't split the power beyond line. However you can add a third function valve in series with the loader valve.

You basically have 3 choices and the final cost will be between $300 and $700 depending on your choice:

• A diverter connected to the bucket curl/dump spool. This is the least expensive if you source the parts yourself at about $300 including hoses, fittings, and joystick switch. Cost is about $500 if you buy a WR Long kit.
• A third function soleniod valve connected in series with your loader valve. A WR Long Kit with everything will run you just over $500.
• Use a rear remote to control the grapple. Factory remotes are expensive ($500+ each) then add hoses, etc.

When you decide what you want then plumbing is simple. I have described the various methods of plumbing an open center valve into a tractor system dozens of times here.

All three of these options have been discussed in extreme detail here on TBN in the last several weeks. A little searching for grapples and you will find more information than you probably can digest. Good luck.

 

[sparkyjc]

Maybe I explained what I want to do wrong. I didn't mean to split the power beyond but just install the diverter valve in series with the power beyond.
If its open center would it not flow through the diverter valve when I'm not using the grapple?

 

[daTeacha]

I know this has been asked before, but for those of us who are hydraulically impaired, what is the difference between "power beyond" and a set up like mine, which has 1 control valve for the hydraulics to the rear remotes and grapple? If I had something connected at all points on the lines coming off this valve -- say a hydraulic top link -- I could open/close the grapple and move the link on the 3 point with one motion of one valve. I don't think the separate valve qualifies as "power beyond", does it?

 

[MadReferee]

Maybe I explained what I want to do wrong. I didn't mean to split the power beyond but just install the diverter valve in series with the power beyond.
If its open center would it not flow through the diverter valve when I'm not using the grapple?

Diverter valves are not connected in the main circuit, they are normally connected to a spool's work ports. You would have 2 connections in (one from each work port) and 4 connections out (2 per circuit). You still have to control the cylinders in each direction and provide for a return, that's why a diverter won't work the way you suggest.

You would need a third function spool valve to do what you want to do. This works like a normal single spool valve only it's electric solenoid controlled instead of lever controlled. You would have pressure in, pressure out and 2 work ports going to the cylnder.

As I said earlier, you have 3 choices. You need to determine which choice is best for how you are going to use the grapple. There are pros and cons to each method and personal preference plays a major role in selection.

Start searching here. All of your possible questions have been answered already.

 

[MadReferee]

I know this has been asked before, but for those of us who are hydraulically impaired, what is the difference between "power beyond" and a set up like mine, which has 1 control valve for the hydraulics to the rear remotes and grapple? If I had something connected at all points on the lines coming off this valve -- say a hydraulic top link -- I could open/close the grapple and move the link on the 3 point with one motion of one valve. I don't think the separate valve qualifies as "power beyond", does it?

As I have explained many times before, power beyond is nothing more than how the control valve is configured. A valve configured for power beyond will exhaust the neutral pressure fluid from the work ports back to the tank instead of back into the main flow circuit. When the valve is not configured for power beyond the neutral pressure fluid dumped back into the circuit cannot operate valves downstream. In other words, if you want to operate a remote simultaneously with your loader, the loader valve must have power beyond.

Factory remote valves are configured for power beyond. Remember, factory "remotes" are nothing more than a single valve with multiple spools.

 

[sparkyjc]

Thanks Mad. I believe you have answered my question. I was calling the electric spool valve a diverter valve by just not knowing what it was called. Thats exactly what I want to do is control the grapple by an electric button on my jotstick.

 

[daTeacha]

Like I said, some of us are hydraulically impaired.

If I'm understanding you correctly, Power Beyond is similar to a series circuit in electricity and a set up like mine, with a valve taking fluid and pressure from a source that has not gone through the FEL valve and has it's own return line is more like a parallel circuit.

I've just never worked with the stuff enough to actually see the relationship between the parts, but I think I have it now. Thanks.

 

[MadReferee]

If I'm understanding you correctly, Power Beyond is similar to a series circuit in electricity and a set up like mine, with a valve taking fluid and pressure from a source that has not gone through the FEL valve and has it's own return line is more like a parallel circuit..

Not quite.

A valve configured for PB will have a pressure inlet, pressure outlet (PB) and a return to tank port for neutral pressure exhaust fluid. Since tractors are open center hydraulic circuits, fluid has to have a continuous path thru each valve and all valves must be connected in series (PB to inlet of next valve).

When a valve's spool is activated, inlet fluid is redirected to the spool, pressure builds and the cylinder moves. The fluid coming out of the non-pressure side of the cylinder goes back to the tank. Inlet fluid not used by the cylinder typically (internal design dependent) continues on to the next valve in the circuit (this is where the term power beyond comes from).

It should be noted that most third function solenoid valves (like the WR Long) are not configured for power beyond. What this means is that since exhaust fluid is being dumped back into the main circuit and all inlet fluid is being used to power the cylinder, the remaining valves in line (usually the remotes and the 3pt) will not be fully operable (if at all) when the third function valve is activated. That's the price you pay for not having power beyond.