Case Model S - How Much To Rebuild?

[cjcocn]

I have a Case Model S (circa 1950) that has been sitting in the bush for years.

Recently I brought it home and this past weekend I towed/pushed it into my garage. I started getting to know it a bit better last night, and most of the tin is off the front (including radiator, cylinder head, carb, etc).

Both the engine and the gear box (the one that I checked, anyway) had water in them.

The engine has thawed enough that the water and oil is draining as I write this and the engine is no longer frozen (in any sense of the word). Yesterday I poured some ATF/Kerosene mix into the engine once I had the valve cover off and also sprayed some AeroKroil into the cylinders via the spark plug holes. Today I tried to give it a bit of a turn (with just my hands on the flywheel pulley) and it turns quite freely. Not knowing what was going on internally, I just verified that the engine would turn and moved on.

NOTE: I broke a grand total of two bolts yesterday, even though once I had a few out they looked like they could just as easily snapped in two. That AeroKroil is great stuff!

I will be heading back out to the garage after I post this up and will drain the gearbox that I checked yesterday. That is, if it has thawed out enough.

While it may be going out on a limb (NOT!), I will venture that all gearboxes have suffered water infiltration.

Now here are my questions:

1. How much should I get into the engine to check things over? I was planning on at least removing the oil pan and having a look-see, and also using that path to flush the engine.

2. There is some rust in the coolant (?) paths. Can I remove enough components to adequately flush the cooling system?

3. The gears appear to be at least shift-able. Are there enough plates that I can remove to look for problem areas, or does the presence of water dictate that I strip all components completely?

4. Being a unit frame, is there an ordered way to dismantle this tractor should it be necessary? (i.e. front first, the the two back pieces, etc)

5. I am going to assume that because the engine is free I can get the transmission free as well (I already shifted it into neutral). Is it too early to be ordering shop manuals and should I wait until I have a look at the gear box(es) to see if there is too much damage there?

6. Which general books on rebuilding tractors do you recommend? I am not sure if I will keep the Case, but since it is my first tractor I may end up doing just that. Regardless, I am already looking for my next tractor (more HP, a 3PH, FEL, etc.) so will need books that are general in nature, but that still contain good information.

Other Notes:

a. I am not sure why this tractor was parked as the guy who gave it to me inherited it when he bought the property.

b. I have never worked on a tractor before, so I really have no clue as to what I am doing.

c. I have never rebuilt an engine before, but I have been known to tinker from time to time.

d. I do not usually talk this much (I actually prefer to read and learn from you folks), but I figure that I would like to know more about tractors and that rebuilding one is a good way to learn.

e. Yes, I am taking pics as I go, but being at home on dial-up precludes my being too quick to post them up.

Thanks

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I wish I could help you more but I have zero experience with the internal workings of an engine. That is my grandfather and uncles expertise. I also can't remember too much about the S as you don't find too many of them. I personally would try to restore that tractor if you can as they are great looking machines and if all you ever do is use it in a parade it would be great as the tractor will keep on going instead of finding its way into a parts dealer. But if it is going to cost $10k to rebuild then I would walk away and try to sell it to a Case collector.

I think YesterdayTractors site would be better for getting information specific to this model but there are a lot of smart guys on here that can help you with the basic engine and tranny information.

Whatever you do, please keep up with the pictures as you move forward on this

 

[cjcocn]

I wish I could help you more but I have zero experience with the internal workings of an engine. That is my grandfather and uncles expertise. I also can't remember too much about the S as you don't find too many of them. I personally would try to restore that tractor if you can as they are great looking machines and if all you ever do is use it in a parade it would be great as the tractor will keep on going instead of finding its way into a parts dealer. But if it is going to cost $10k to rebuild then I would walk away and try to sell it to a Case collector.

I think YesterdayTractors site would be better for getting information specific to this model but there are a lot of smart guys on here that can help you with the basic engine and tranny information.

Whatever you do, please keep up with the pictures as you move forward on this

LOL. I have zero experience with the internals of an engine as well .... as of today, that is.

I will copy my initial post and start a thread at YT, but will keep up with this thread as I go along and will start posting pics once I get some progress.

The rear of this tractor seems to be one big gear box. The oil that came out of it, while old, did not appear too discolored for gear oil and contained no water.

I still have to find out if there are other sections that must be drained independently (there are two more drain plugs that I see?), but it looks like my water problems are centered around the engine and .... tranny? There was a drain plug right behind the engine on the right side and below the starter. It was frozen yesterday, but has thawed some and is slowly draining. There is still a bit of ice in there so hopefully it will be ready to drain completely tomorrow.

Aside from partially draining the "big" gearbox (on the right side underneath the gauges and takes a 1" wrench), all I accomplished since my first post was the removal of some of the old wiring, the starter, the oil filter components, and the magneto.

I think I will switch angles tomorrow and start taking off the tin at the rear (wheel wells, gauge cluster, etc.) so that I can more easily access the transmission and rear end covers that joe48 mentioned in the other thread. That will allow me to do the inspections that he suggested.

Thanks!

 

[john_bud]

Chris,

Well, you are sort of in luck. At least the engine is free. You done good to squirt lube into the engine.

Next steps are to open the transmission and probably pressure wash it out. Water does nasty things in there. You want the bottom drain open so the muck can ooze out. After pressure ashing (Hot soapy water is best), you will need to get the wash water out. Alcohol, paint thinner, then diesel. Then squirt hydro or gear oil to lubricate everything. Don't fill it up (yet), make sure it is either good or bad first.

Then, if you can drop the oil pan on the engine. See how much rust damage there is in there. Pull a connecting rod cap and a main bearing cap. You don't want to see copper thru the bearing material. Get some plastigage and check the clearance.

If you can, try and run the engine. I'd jack k up the front and back and have it on jack stands. Then you can see how the trans works.

I would not just jump in and pull it apart. That is a sure fire way to spend a LOT of $$$.

jb

 

[jimmysisson]

It'd be great to see if any castings are split from having frozen water inside over the years. Depending where it's split, it might be a deal-killer. I imagine at an autoparts store there's something to spray on that points up any cracking. That'd be my big fear. And parts availabilty. Not too many Case tractors around here (NE) but where you are maybe. Otherwise most elderly tractors are simple to work on and rugged. If the tin's good and no cracked castings, I'd go for it.
Jim

 

[john_bud]

There is a 3 part spray system from "magnaflux". Semi-hard to use in that the parts need to start out grease and oil free.

If the castings were holding fluids in after melt down, they are probably ok.

jb

 

[cjcocn]

Thanks for pointing that out, fellas. I only did a visual and it did not dawn on me that I could have hairline (or smaller) cracks.

I will see what is available locally and also talk to a few shops to see what they may have to offer by way of products or suggestions.

The rear gear box had zero water infiltration so should be good to go once I finish draining it (ran out of 5 gal pails) and check the gears via the inspection covers.

The second area where I had a few drops of water turned out to be the clutch housing. It had very little water and I have pulled the inspection cover off of that and it looks good (but then again I have a seriously untrained eye!).

The plow for my truck arrived in the city so I made a round trip yesterday to pick it up. Add the surprise overnight visit from an out of town friend the previous night, and I am 3 days without having touched my tractor.

I'd best get that plow on quick and get back on the ball!

Thanks again.

 

[ToadHill]

If you saved any fluid from the radiator, have it checked to see how far the freeze point was down to. That should give you some idea if you have block or head cracks from freezing.

It is time to get workshop manuals to see what may be unique about this tractor. If the water and gear oil was mixed in the tranny, and was milky when you removed it chances are that a cleaning is all the tranny will need.

Most tractors disassemble from the front to the back. After you remove the engine, I'd lift the rear wheels and rotate the input shaft and move it thru the gears to see what the tranny sounds like.

From your description I'll be the tranny and rear end are fine.

Good luck.

 

[EddieWalker]

My thought is that you are just spinning your wheels unless you do a total rebuild. Pull the engine, pull the transmission and the rear end. Get some books and post lots of pics, and you can rebuild it yourself. If you are totally against doing it yourself, you can still save a ton of money by pulling it apart yourself.

If you disagree, ask yourself what you want to do with it? If you just want to be able to start it, drive it up and down the driveway,then you might be ok trying to make what you have work. If you want to use it to do any work at all, then it's just a matter of time until you HAVE to pull it apart and rebuild it. Usually when that happens, you have way too much going on in your life and no money for rebuilding a tractor.

If you spend a year doing it right, it will last your lifetime. If you spend a year messing around with it, fixing one thing here, or another thing there, then you'll have an old, worn out tractor at the very best.

We're here to help, just take it apart into different groups, and start asking questions.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[cjcocn]

My thought is that you are just spinning your wheels unless you do a total rebuild. Pull the engine, pull the transmission and the rear end. Get some books and post lots of pics, and you can rebuild it yourself. If you are totally against doing it yourself, you can still save a ton of money by pulling it apart yourself.

If you disagree, ask yourself what you want to do with it? If you just want to be able to start it, drive it up and down the driveway,then you might be ok trying to make what you have work. If you want to use it to do any work at all, then it's just a matter of time until you HAVE to pull it apart and rebuild it. Usually when that happens, you have way too much going on in your life and no money for rebuilding a tractor.

If you spend a year doing it right, it will last your lifetime. If you spend a year messing around with it, fixing one thing here, or another thing there, then you'll have an old, worn out tractor at the very best.

We're here to help, just take it apart into different groups, and start asking questions.

Good luck,
Eddie

Hi Eddie

I certainly do not want to just spin my wheels (although I do have a trick to get myself unstuck should I need to ).

This project would not be any fun if all I did was pull parts and have someone else rebuild them (or buy new and replace everything), so I plan on doing all of the work myself. Some of it (well, 99% of it) will be new to me so I plan on finding local sources to help me through the finesse areas (cylinder honing, using plastigauge on the crank, etc). I could figure this stuff out on my own (with books), but having someone here with me will be quicker as I can have them walk me through everything the first time. After that it will be easy to do again and the learning aspect of it is one of the biggest attractions for me.

I have been taking pics, but have not ordered any books yet. I will order them immediately after posting this response and then will work on disassembling the tractor completely.

At the end of the day I want to be secure in the knowledge that I can work this tractor without having to worry about something failing on me. You are 100% right in that the only way I can achieve that is to tear it down completely and see for myself that everything is either still in good shape, or requires replacement/repair.

It is a simple tractor and aside from the gearing and engine, which I imagine require certain tolerances in some areas, I can strip it all down and build it back up again. The only problem with that is I have no books or nor am I experienced enough to know when I am looking at something that is worn beyond tolerances. Well, that and the torque specs that I do not have yet.

Either way, I will keep working on it and will keep taking pics. That way I will be ready to start putting it back together by the time the books get here.

Thanks!