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  1. #1
    Elite Member Richard's Avatar
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    Fullsized JCB Loader/Backhoe

    Default Injection pump?

    Is this a fair diagnosis that my problem is my fuel injection pump?

    Scenario: Tractor was being use... turned off. Next day and since forth, has not started. (neighbor borrowing it)

    It's an International 444. Gravity feed from tank to filter, tube goes to other side of tank into the injection pump.

    I might add that over the years, I've SUSPECTED that the tractor has not gone to full RPM's but since I'm not terribly familar with this tractor when it WAS running 'new' I don't know how fast it should go. Looking at the tach gives you a needle that is bouncing all over the place so the tach is essentially useless.

    ok, now to the prognosis.

    removed lower bleeder and every now & then a healthy spurt would come out but I could put my finger over it and kill flow. Upper bleeder... very little squirted out, more like spit.

    So... I then removed the fuel inlet tube. The 1/8 inch (or what ever) fuel tube goes into a larger fitting and this larger fitting then has something like a 3/4" sized lock nut to tighten it down.

    UNDER this assembly is a spring for some reason or another.

    ok, here's what I did and is the thrust of my question...

    I removed the fuel inlet, there was a 'puddle' of fuel in this oriface where the inlet use to be. The fuel was to the brim. I cranked the engine over and expected to see the fuel level suck right out of this little pocket (the threaded receiver hole for the larger input fitting)

    the fuel did NOT go down at all. Nothing, nada zip.

    That has me thinking this fuel pump is essentially dead.

    reasonable??


  2. #2
    Elite Member Richard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Injection pump?

    I might add that it has a fresh fuel filter so I know it's not that...besides, fuel is flowing FREELY when I removed the fuel inlet pipe from the pump fitting. (I had to hold a finger on it to keep it from draining tank while I was tinkering on pump.... the fuel shutoff petcock at the tank itself, isn't petcocking )

  3. #3
    Veteran Member irwin's Avatar
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    2004 Kubota L35TLB, '89' Cub Cadet 1541

    Default Re: Injection pump?

    Do you have a service manual for this beast (no not IT, a real one )

    Unless the fuel can go someplace else under pressure (like into crankcase, bad seal ? ) it does sound like the pump's worn..

    BTW I have a IH 2424 but it's a gas engine.
    .....Tim

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Injection pump?

    The pump head could have a bubble in it, not letting the fuel in. Is there a bleed port on the top of the pump?

    Do you have a lift pump? Electric pump that supplies fuel to the main injection pump. That could have failed.

    If not those things, then crack open the wallet. If the pump is out, it is often wise to have the injectors cleaned and reset too.

    jb

  5. #5
    Elite Member Richard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Injection pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by john_bud View Post
    The pump head could have a bubble in it, not letting the fuel in. Is there a bleed port on the top of the pump?

    Do you have a lift pump? Electric pump that supplies fuel to the main injection pump. That could have failed.

    If not those things, then crack open the wallet. If the pump is out, it is often wise to have the injectors cleaned and reset too.

    jb
    I've tried (and tried & tried) to bleed the pump, suspecting that the neighbor ran out of fuel, he swears he didn't & I'm beginning to believe him

    There ARE indeed two bleed ports, this is what I refer to when I say the top one was more like 'spit' when it pumped fuel out.

    No lift pump, all gravity feed and I get a solid flow of fuel at the pump inlet. no electric pump

    I'm thinking it's wallet time too. This tractor is probably near 40 years old, give or take and is probably original pump.

    Couple questions for anyone if I may...(under presumption that pump is in fact, bad)

    1. Can they be rebuilt or should I try to find a new one?
    2. I presume it's a 'timed' pump via mechanical means so it's important to replace the pump in the same synchronization as this one?
    3. Like gears on a timing crank (I'm thinking my old GM car), do the gears on this have little 'dots' on them to help align or does it maybe require special tools?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Injection pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post

    Couple questions for anyone if I may...(under presumption that pump is in fact, bad)

    1. Can they be rebuilt or should I try to find a new one?
    2. I presume it's a 'timed' pump via mechanical means so it's important to replace the pump in the same synchronization as this one?
    3. Like gears on a timing crank (I'm thinking my old GM car), do the gears on this have little 'dots' on them to help align or does it maybe require special tools?
    1) Sure can be rebuilt. But, take it to a diesel injection place. You don't want to muck it up as a wrong pump can cause total runaway. So, no need to buy a new one. But, rebuild is in the 3-500 range. Still much cheaper than a new one.

    2) Yes. There is usually a way to set the timing. Fords have a little window on the front plate of the bellhousing so you can see the flywheel. I don't know what yours has. Time to buy a manual! Or maybe try the library?

    3) Shouldn't be any special tools for a 40 year old tractor, they were made for farmers. Once you know where to look, it should be straight forward.

    If you rebuild the pump, it is often wise to have the injectors also brought up to snuff at the same time.

    jb

  7. #7
    Elite Member Richard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Injection pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by john_bud View Post
    If you rebuild the pump, it is often wise to have the injectors also brought up to snuff at the same time. jb
    Although I KNOW you're right, all this will expose is the fact that this tractor will then need new pistions/rings... then bored... then new crank...then....


  8. #8
    Silver Member
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    Ontario Canada Lowbanks
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    Kubota 1830 BX

    Default Re: Injection pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Although I KNOW you're right, all this will expose is the fact that this tractor will then need new pistions/rings... then bored... then new crank...then....

    And then you will have vintige classic tractor
    LOL
    regards
    DGS

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