Prime new fuel injector pump?

   / Prime new fuel injector pump? #1  

Richard

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2000
Messages
4,813
Location
Knoxville, TN
Tractor
International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
Put a new injection pump on an International 444.

Installed the fuel input line, 4 output lines, throttle.....

Removed the lower air bleed screw and cranked over several times. After a brief moment, I got fuel spurting out of the hole. Not knowing if I should keep going until I get fuel GUSHING out of the lower hole, I replaced screw and then removed the upper bleeder screw (which I then promptly dropped into the grass in the dark :mad:)

I never did get fuel spurting out of the upper bleeder. I thought maybe I had TOO much air inside it, so removed three of the four output lines (which go directly to the injectors)

I got a teeny weeny bit of dripping out of ONE of them during this cranking process.

Should I have poured fuel inside the inlet first?

Since this is gravity fed, should I let it sit there for a little while to let it fill up as fast as the gravity will allow? (it's now got no choice but to sit over night)

This has me a bit perplexed. I would have figured that we'd get fuel shooting halfway across the field after several revolutions of the engine. I cranked it WAY more than several revolutions and still... lower bleed has spurts and upper bleed has nothing.

Any thoughts?


(I will say that I'm beginning to wonder if the drive assembly (chain) might be broken...we never checked for that while it was apart since it dictated taking more things apart)
 
   / Prime new fuel injector pump? #2  
The first thing to check is do you have plenty of fuel going to the pump. Take the line off at the pump and make sure you have good flow.
 
   / Prime new fuel injector pump? #3  
how long have you cranked it over some can take quite a bit to prime completely loosen the lines right and the injectors and crank it over till you have a good streanm of fuel out of at least a couple of them and you should be good to go
 
   / Prime new fuel injector pump?
  • Thread Starter
#4  
I called the guys this morning that we got the pump (rebuilt) from.

He said I didn't need to remove the bleeder screws from the body (and therefore not drop them in the grass to be lost forever...)

He said to just crack the bottom one. He suggested the top one would take care of itself.

During this chat I realized something, here's a tidbit of history:

This is a gravity fed pump. The fuel shutoff on the bottom of the fuel tank is VERYYYYYYYYY hard to turn and VERYYYYYYYY awkward to get to, SO, we simply emptied the tank so the fuel wouldn't drain everywhere.

After putting this back together and talking to this guy this morning... it dawned on me that we might just possibly have a large air bubble somewhere between the tank, filter and pump. We might NOT have a large air bubble. Regardless... I now intend to try to check for any air starting at the tank, then on down the food chain.

One thing I also did last night, was to remove at the pump, three of the four individual fuel lines. So, instead of cracking the lines at the injector, I totally removed the feed line at the pump. I wanted to be sure I was having fuel come out of the outlets and I got at MOST, a blurp out of one of them and this blurp was maybe 3 drops worth.... very very little.

I suppose if this tractor had some kind of transfer pump, this problem wouldn't be as annoying.
 
   / Prime new fuel injector pump? #5  
I had a similar problem on my Ford tractor, ice crystals had formed in the tank and blocked the feed line. I bled the lines and there was no way it wanted to start. After fooling with it for too long and the battery was getting tired I gave it a shot of ether, figured it would spin it over a little faster and help the IP get going. The damned thing fired right up and purred.

Couple of years later I ran out of fuel, bled the system to the IP, small shot of ether and it ran right away.

Don't use glow plugs with ether.
 
   / Prime new fuel injector pump?
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Update: (after having drained a NEW battery trying to turn this thing)

Started from scratch:

1. Installed NEW fuel filter
2. Took compressor and blew line clean from tank to filter
3. Took compressor and blew line clean from filter to injection pump inlet (after removing supply tube of course :cool:)
4. REMOVED injection pump again to verify 100% that the gear that turns the pump, rotated with the engine rotation (feared a broken timing chain)
5. Reinstalled everything
6. Opened up lower bleed port and finally had fuel spurting out sporadically.
* Question: Is the fuel supposed to STREAM out this lower port, or should it PULSE out of this port?

7. Closed lower port and opened upper port and got fuel to bubble out
* Question: Should fuel bubble or spurt out of upper port? Guy at fix it shop said he usually ignored upper port when he installed these!

I did NOT yet install the fuel 'tubes' from the injection pump to the injectors. I wanted to be sure that fuel was spurting out of the 4 fuel exits on the pump itself.

Symptoms after all above:

A) I DO have fuel running up my fuel return line back to tank
B) I have only sporadic (and low pressure and low volume) spurts of fuel out of the exit ports. I say sporadic because I surmize if the engine was RUNNING, it would need a spurt every "x" sounds of the engine turning over. As it is... it seems the engine is turning over "X+9" times BEFORE the next spurt shows up (highly scientific descriptions, eh!! :rolleyes:)

I know it's possible to get a bum pump replaced with a bum pump, but really....what are the odds that this one would exhibit the same factors the old one did?

Also... when you have a good fuel supply...just how forceful and how much volume SHOULD be spurting out at the fuel outlets? Looking closer, the lines to the injectors themselves have a MUCH smaller diamater than I would have expected. I was surprised. That inferred to me that the engine uses far less volume per stroke than I would have suspected.


I'll admit that I'm finally dumfounded on this pump.

They tell me it's impossible to setup out of phase with the engine....even if it WAS possible...I'd still be getting good flow from it, just at the wrong timing event.

did I find the 1 in a million dud rebuilt pump???

How do they test a pump, or DO they actually TEST a pump to make sure it's working right??
 
   / Prime new fuel injector pump? #8  
I assume there is no lift pump on the engine whatsoever. Just to make sure, look for a knob or lever than you can move in or out. It will be located on or by the injection pump. If you find one, you work it to get fuel into the pump. Be aware that some models of pumps use a lever running off of the cam. If the cam is in the wrong spot, the hand pump will not work. To rectify, bump the engine over.

Once you get fuel running to the pump, you should crack the lower bleed until the fuel runs out without any air bubbles in it. Next, do the same thing with the upper bleed.

Now that the injection pump is bled, you will probably have to bleed the air out of the injection lines. Turn the engine over and barely crack the line at the first injector. It may take awhile, as the lines are likely empty. When the fuel runs and the bubbles stop, tighten the nut while the engine is still turning. That cylinder should start firing. Always tighten the nut with the engine turning, or you may let air back into the line. The lines must have no air in them, or it will not start.

Give the starter motor a rest for a few minutes and repeat. If the engine starts and runs roughly, you can crack the other lines while it is running. You can have more than one injector line cracked at a time. Just make sure you close them all while it is still turning. Don't crack more than one at a time with it running, though.

These are generic instructions, not specific to your machine.

Edit: I just reread your original post. Were you cranking while you trying to bleed the pump? You shouldn't be doing that. Bleed the pump with engine not cranking. Bleed the injector lines with the engine cranking.

Any fuel filters or water separators may have to be bled before you bleed anything else. It all gets done in series, starting at the closest thing to the tank.
 
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   / Prime new fuel injector pump?
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Did you do any gear timing setup/procedure before installing the pump ?

Nope, original pump off, replacement pump on... didn't pass go, didn't collect $200
 
   / Prime new fuel injector pump? #10  
Nope, original pump off, replacement pump on... didn't pass go, didn't collect $200

Pumps themselves are often timed, and the timing will be lost if the pump isn't reinstalled properly. That is what Will was talking about.
 
 
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