JD 1050 starter? wiring? operator?

[d1king]

Believe you will find that J.D. has a kit AM107421 with the low boltage starter relay for this type problem. I bought one for my Kubota b2400 and have not had a single problem since. (Kubota wanted app $640.00 for starter and ig. switch.) Seem to be a problem with cumulative voltage drop across system thru safety switches as system ages. Might go to Kubota operating and repair and search for 'b2400 starter problem'. Kubmech had a great thread on this dated June 2001. Might be something to try. Good Luck.

 

[sarge1572]

I think John Wayne is credited with saying, Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid!

I'm here to tell you he's right and apply for the poster boy position. whoa!!

You can jump to the end if you don't want to read all the BS, but this is how my day with a Deere went:

Disconnected the battery, of course, removed the starter. Listen intently for a click or clunk indicating the starter gear might have been stuck in the flywheel. Nothing. I didn't take anything apart, but noted that the spring had adequate tension to pull the starter gear back into the starter, IF it actually engaged! Nothing loose, no rattles, so I put it back on. Hooked the battery up and I'll be damned if it didn't start on the first go. I was happy as a clam!! I let it run for a few minutes, shut it off and hoping against hope I turned the key to start it again. Clunk! 2 or 3 tries, same clunk. I checked the voltage at the battery (12.54) and to the starter (12.54). I thought perhaps there was a poor connection so I disconnected the battery, removed the cable from the starter, cleaned the heck out of them both, reattached to whole enchilada and..... started on the first try. Once again I'm a happy guy, but knowing that my John Wayne moment hasn't arrived I tempted fate once again. Shut it off, waited a few minutes, gave the key a twist... clunk. crap!

Back to the computer and re-read what the experts said paying particular attention to what Kebo and Tommu had to say. I hooked my meter up to the battery (12.54 volts) turned the key, clunk, the battery dropped to 11.7 volts, enough to start. I then took the meter and hooked it to both sides of the starter, 12.54 volts. Twisted the key, heard the anticipated clunk, and watched the meter go down, bottoming out at 5.54 volts.

While the wiring is in decent condition, 25 years has to take it's toll.

Tomorrow I'm driving up to the JD dealer for the AM107421 wiring regulator kit (Thank you D1King for the part number)!! I'd use the Ford option but this one sounds like it has all the parts and something I need; follow the dots instructions with pictures!!

The saga continues.

Thank you to all of you very much for sharing your experience and especially your wisdom. You've saved me from violating the Fire Code and finding out the answer to: How big ARE the flames from a JD 1050 when it's fully engulfed!

Thanks again
Jeff

 

[kebo]

Jeff, did you try the "test" I mentioned??? If you haven't installed the relay kit yet, try cranking the tractor and the next time you hear the starter go "clunk" hold the key in the start position, take a hammer (or maybe a big rubber mallet), and hit the solenoid a few times (hard but not hard enough to break anything). If it cranks up after hitting it a few times, then that's what the I had 750 was doing.

Let us know how it cranks after you get that relay kit installed. I can promise you that if it doesn't fix your problem entirely, it will surely help make the situation better cause it surely can't hurt getting a little more voltage and current to the solenoid. Good luck!

Keith

 

[sarge1572]

Keith,

I did try tapping the solenoid and forgot to mention it. It was unsuccessful in getting it to start, not sure if I was a little to timid with the technique but I did tap from several different directions at varying intensities with the key in the start position.

I have the tech manual and may take LeeJohn's advice and take the whole thing apart to see where that may lead. If it's something a simple as poor contacts, etc, I'll tackle the repair or send it out for rebuild.
I think I mentioned that the wiring is decent, but 25 years has to take it's toll. Also the tractor sat for close to 3 years before I bought it. It started right up when I bought it but since then I split it to install a new 2 stage clutch assembly, bearing etc. in it, removing all of the wiring from the front half. I also pulled the cowling from around the gauges and steering column to inspect the wiring and remove all of the "stuff" packed in there from rats that it was hard to remove. There are a few wired chewed in half (I wonder what's in them that rats find so irresistible) and a few more that are missing the sheathing around the wire in places. None that go to the starter or the switches. The rats nest and filth were packed into the dash so tight I had to pry it out with a screwdriver. The dirt and "stuff" has to be packed down into the connections etc. so I either have to rewire sections of it or at the very least make sure the contacts are all cleaned up. Now that I have all of this exposed and easier access I will test voltage through out the circuit and see if it's something as "simple" as cleaning up or eliminating at plug-in connection.

It's a good thing for me I'm not relying on this to do any real work! I hope to have it up and running (again) before summer.

Kebo, If you still have the info on the wire around and addition of the regulator I'd appreciate any information. It seems the John Deere kit that D1King gave me the part number for may not be available any more. Neither of the local dealers have it and weren't forthcoming in whether or not it could be ordered. I'll continue to follow up on that as the listed price online from JD is $25, worth the time trouble and energy to make one, plus it is supposed to come with wiring instructions, if it has pictures I might be able to muddle my way through the install!!

I'll keep you posted on how I'm progressing.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Jeff

 

[d1king]

Try a search for 'B2400 starter problem' and see Kubmech comments on page 2 (7-15-04) on how to wire, and also search 'b2400 starter problem finally solved' and see a picture on how it goes on. Also, Van Wall Equipment in Olathe, Ks. has 2 on hand ( had 6 app 4 weeks ago when I got mine), If you call at 913-397-6009 they can ship out. Comes with wiring instruction, etc. took me about 10 minutes to install. part no AM107421. If you have access to a fax I can fax the wiring diagram from mine if you need it. PM me if you need, I'll give you my cell no. if I can help. No guarentee this will fix, but its what I would try next.

 

[jimmysisson]

You didn't disturb a battery-to-frame ground, or an engine-to-frame ground did you? This sounds like an intermittent connection. That could be at external wiring ends or inside the solenoid as has been mentioned. Possibly you can get the solenoid apart (don't quote me) and just clean the contacts? Wires don't get thinner with age (except battery leads from corrosion) so I'd be more suspicious of a switch (solenoid) or ground.
Good luck, keep us informed. Sounds more irritating than expensive.
Jim

 

[kebo]

Keith,

Kebo, If you still have the info on the wire around and addition of the regulator I'd appreciate any information. It seems the John Deere kit that D1King gave me the part number for may not be available any more. Neither of the local dealers have it and weren't forthcoming in whether or not it could be ordered. I'll continue to follow up on that as the listed price online from JD is $25, worth the time trouble and energy to make one, plus it is supposed to come with wiring instructions, if it has pictures I might be able to muddle my way through the install!!

I'll keep you posted on how I'm progressing.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Jeff

Jeff, it looks like d1king posted the way to search for info you need on this forum. I suggest you try that first. If you still can't find a wiring diagram, let me know and I will send it to you. The hook up is really pretty simple. Keep us posted on it.

Keith

 

[d1king]

Jeff, I'm going to try to send you Kubmech's descripton, of problem and fix. Had a problem doing this before, so may not go thru.
Re: B2400 STARTER PROBLEM

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Frank, heres the bottom line..Power flows from your ignition switch through your PTO, neutral and clutch safety switches.
To the starter solenoid (black/white wire??) When all the switches and battery etc. are new there is very little resistance.
After you get some time and some age in these components resistance builds up and eventually will cause a voltage drop by the time it gets to the starter solenoid. This voltage drop will vary according to temperature, humidity and other factors.
That's why some times it'll work and other times it wont. The starter solenoid needs approx. 9 volts to fully engage. Anything less and it wont fully make contact to send power to run the starter motor. Yes it will click, but needs just a little more "oomph" to fully seat on the contacts and allow the starter motor portion to run. Now instead of replacing all the components in the system to reduce the voltage drop. What you need to do is install a starter relay. Most, if not all modern machines have this feature now because of this very problem. Some companies figured this out a bit sooner than others and came up with a pre-wired relay kit with instructions (John Deere and Scag I know for sure). Now some guys like to do things on there own and run down to NAPA and get a regular low voltage relay or a good old fashion starter solenoid, wire it up themselves and fix this problem, which works just fine. However the good old fashion starter solenoids still need close to 9 volts to engage and still causes some problems. The low voltage relay is the best way to go.. I think it will work with as low as 4 volts. In my experience the easiest way to go, is to install the JD kit part #
AM107421. It's, like I said, prewired and comes with instructions and it's around 15-20 bucks. Basically the way it works is... The red wire goes to the Battery terminal of the starter, the black wire goes to ground. You plug the black/white lead that would normally go to your starter to the male purple connector of the relay and the female connector purple lead to the starter. I have solved this "mysterious" problem many, many times on all brands and models of older machines with this kit. Everyone has given great suggestions for making sure your basic electrical system is sound and in proper working order. Most times when all else checks out and I have verified that voltage to the starter solenoid is a little low or questionable, installing this kit solves the problem at least 99% of the time. I'd be willing to bet it will work in your case as well. On rare occasions I have torn down the starter to find the contacts bad in the solenoid when this kit would not solve the problem. However for the price of the kit it's more than worth a shot in my opinion..................

Looks like it made it made it- Don

 

[EV59]

In the past I sold many 50 series tractors and the starting problem was definetley a problem. The start relay fix will solve the problem. The relay was actually the original kit used on the old 116 lawn tractors that had the same problem...

 

[banjodunn]

G'day Jeff what is the condition of the battery terminals where the lead goes in the back if it has got the moulded type of terminals cut them off and put some new terminals on, the moulded type are notorious for corroding in the back and you can't see it, it sounds a bit like your problem as you say when you disturbed the terminals it started the relay idea is a good thing to do we do this alot on headers (combine harvesters to you lot over there ) as there is such a long distance from the key to starter a pretty easy fit up i would not go to JD for it though your local auto parts store should have all you need (i.e 30amp 12volt 4 pin relay, roll of wire and some solderless terminals) the hook up is fairly straight forward i'm sure you would find a thread somewhere on TBN on how to wire up a relay. If all this fails you may be looking at a bad armature in the starter best of luck

Jon