IH 444 injection pump question...

[Richard]

We've got an International 444. Last fall, I installed a new injectin pump and all is now working fine.

During the install process, I found three bolts. I don't have any pictures, so I'll try to describe the process....

ON the side of the machine is the drive gear for the pump. The pump installs with the drive head facing the front. The gear housing allows BOTH sides of it (covers) to be removed.

I had to take them both off for various reasons...while the front was off (the side OPPOSITE where the pump actually attaches) I found three bolts. They were let's say, all 1/2" bolts by maybe 1" long. They were LOOSE in the bottom of this housing where they either fell off the front of the gear or maybe were slung up here by the timing chaing. (??)

I pulled them out thinking they held the pump to the actual gear BUT as I recall, they did not fit through the gear (there were little holes machined in the gear) AND the pump drive head, also had NO threads on it to allow them to bolt in.

I removed them and replaced the cover.

I installed what I call the 'drive pin' into the gear and this pin is what meshes with the drive head of the pump. I then put the pump into place, aligning the drive pin with the drive head (now the pump is timed to the engine) and bolted the pump on.

The bolts on the pump are much like bolts on an alternator...you have a pivot bolt that allows the unit to swing a few degrees left/right... then the other bolts have a little arc in them so you can rotate the pump and tighten them down.

The pump SEEMS to attach ONLY via these three bolts to the exterior of the housing.

That's all setup... here's the deal...

My brother in law called today, all kinds of ants in his pants.... he is just swearing that there is NO WAY the drive gear can NOT be bolted to the front of the pump. Forget that there are no threads in the pumps head, forget that the bolts I found were not long enough to go through the gear and into the pump head, forget that this would now mean having to disassemble BOTH sides of this attachment to remove/install a new pump... forget that the pump is already attached to the mounting plate with three bolts.

I've looked on their website www.caseih.com and they don't have enough detail to show if the injection pump is supposed to be bolted to the gear or not.

Everything I could see, indicated it was this 'pin' that exclusively powered the pump but my brother in law doesn't think I'm right.

Although the tractor works 100% fine now, he's nervous that this pin is going to shear, find its way into the engine and trash the entire tractor (which would probably be a GOOD thing!! )

So, with that story...

I'm asking if anyone knows specifically if a IH 444 injection pump BOLTS to the drive gear, or is it reasonable that it will simply be held next to the drive gear with the drive pin doing all the work?

Does anyone know factually of a pump that does NOT bolt to a drive gear that isn't an International??


I finally invited him over this weekend....said I'd take the entire thing apart again if he wanted, this way he could see for himself how the parts went and the issue of no threads to screw a bolt into.

Thoughts??

 

[Yankee Clipper]

Richard,

If your 444 has a D-188 engine with a Roosa Master pump, the drive is the same as the 6 cylinder D282 used in the 706, which was more popular.

The drive gear has slots to allow the timing to be changed - advanced / retarded - so it lines up with the timing window gauge (IH tool). Once the timing is set, the three bolts have to be secured or the timing could slip and the engine might run with no power, won't start or other issues.

The only thing that is driving the pump now is the pin and your brother in law is right that at any moment it could fail and you would have a problem.

Torque those bolts up now and you should be OK

Good luck!

 

[Richard]

Torque those bolts up now and you should be OK Good luck!

heh heh .... I'd torque them up however, they don't exist!!

The mud has cleared a bit...
Evidently, there is in fact supposed to be 3 bolts holding the drive gear to the pumps driven head. These bolts were OFF when I took things apart.

Second, the replacement pump does NOT have threads drilled in the drive head. Seems some do and some don't... they gave me one that didn't and since it didn't have threads, I concluded nothing screwed in.

I've talked to the place that gave us the pump, he said to bring it in and he'll put the correct threaded head on it.

I've ordered some new bolts to attach it to the gear.

It's interesting to me, had one item been different... (old bolts attached to old pump, new pump having threads...) I would have stopped and asked more questions. As it is, all the "facts" pointed to nothing bolting the pump to the gear...after all... it already has three other bolts holding it to the housing... does it really need SIX bolts?

sigh...evidently so!!

Parts are ordered and the wheels are turning!

 

[Richard]

Ok, just so the rest of the story is known and I'm publically humiliated...

I removed the injection pump last night. It DOES have threaded holes where it would bolt to the timing gear (or what ever the gear is called). I guess I simply didn't notice them. I have no idea how long this machine has gone with the injector pump disconnected from the drive gear. When I removed the bad pump, I simply disconnected it and removed it. I didn't touch the 3 gear bolts.

To properly install/remove it, you have three bolts on the pump itself, bolting it to the tractor. Then there is a cover plate that is of course, a pain to deal with... This cover plate must be removed and three bolts installed or removed to put the pump on or take it off.

There is also some kind of spline in the center of the pump. Seems it can be attached by either bolting it on in my case, or mounting onto a shaft and the shaft goes into the centerline of the pump.

I've now ordered the proper bolts I need to mount it to the gear and the tractor is not going to be used until then.

 

[banjodunn]

G'day glad to hear you found the bolt holes when you do put them in make sure you go round these bolts two or three times i had an apprentice (4th year) put a new pump on an old JD tightened the first bolt then the others but by doing that the gear didn't seat on the pump properly ten days later i have very irate farmer on phone saying he has got oil leaking out of front of tractor, send appprentice out to have a look thought he must have left something loose he rings up telling me the timing case is cracked three days later one timing case gasket seal etc it was up and going again. Please don't do that to yourself



Jon