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  1. #11

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    okay, I"m back. I can set the injector pump timing as described in the manual by watching for fuel at injector 1. But, I'd like to confirm this by using the timing alignment marks. The problem is I can only see one gear pair. The gear driving the pump gear is marked "A", "B" and "C". The pump gear has only a small "b" on it.

    My approach was to rotate the engine until fuel started to spill out of injector #1 opening (16 deg before TDC). Then rotate a bit further until the "b" marking was at the point where the gear tooth would mesh with the other gear.

    Then disconnect the pump gear and rotate the engine until both the engine flywheel markings were at piston #1 TDC AND the "B" is visible at the point where the gears would mesh. Then button it up and check the timing.

    My thinking was that this is TDC for both the injector pump and the piston so it shoudl be close. But alas, no. When I do this, the pump always delivers fuel at piston #2 TDC not #1.

    Do I have cylinders confused (manual says piston #1 closest to the flywheel (i.e. driver's seat))?

    Am I not using the right index indicator for TDC (I don't have a portal, instead the timing marks seem to line up with a notch in the flywheel cover and since I have the injectors out, I'm able to confirm that this mark is piston #1 TDC)?

    Am I looking at the right injection pump outlet (I'm looking at the one closest to the flywheel)?

    Am I rotating the engine the wrong way (counter clockwise facing the flywheel. This seems consistent as the 3 timing marks appear before TDC)?

    Help please.

  2. #12
    Elite Member dfkrug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    4,662
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    NorCal
    Tractor
    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    Quote Originally Posted by paroxysm3 View Post
    Do I have cylinders confused (manual says piston #1 closest to the flywheel (i.e. driver's seat))?
    #1 is at the back, closest to the FW, as stated.

    When rotating the engine the degree marks on the FW will go from higher
    # to lower, like 15-deg BTDC, then 10-deg BTDC. I don't recall if that is
    CW or CCW at the crank pulley bolt.

    Do you have the valve cover off to see which cyl has both valves closed?
    Last edited by dfkrug; 01-04-2010 at 11:00 PM.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    No. I guess that's next. I feel I'm on the slippery slope to a complete rebuild.

  4. #14
    Elite Member Chilly807's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    3,222
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Tractor
    Kubota L3400DT

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    Ok, I'll try to walk you through this.

    To establish the right rotation, remove the valve cover and watch the valves. As you rotate the engine, the exhaust valve should open, then as it begins to close, the intake should open on the piston down stroke. The intake should close as you reach BTDC, from that point on for the next 180 degrees you're on the compression stroke. Remember that the injection pump only fires on every second rotation of the engine. and near the end of the compression stroke.

    That's the easy part... if you're going to time the engine using the spill cut off method, that measures the beginning of injection, not the end. The fuel rack has to be in a certain position, usually full fuel position. If your tractor has a pull cable for shutdown, it must be in the start position. If it has a fuel solenoid, that has to be energized, or in the "run" state.

    Shut off the fuel supply before you start. There is a "delivery valve" and spring that must be removed from the pump element you're setting the engine to, normally #1. It's removed by loosening the clamping bolts across the top of the injection pump, then removing the "delivery valve nut" at the top of the pump for that cylinder. Once the nut is carefully off, you should see a small spring with upper seat and the delivery valve under it. Remove the upper spring seat, spring, and valve (leave the valve body in place), and replace the nut to the same position/torque it was before. Probably about 30 ft lbs torque.

    You need to make a "spill tube" out of an old fuel injection line, it will extend vertically about 4 inches above the pump, then smoothly bend 180 degrees downward with about a 2 or 3 inch radius, the end with no nut (injector end cut off) should be cut off at 45 degrees angle to form a sharp point.

    You're going to put the spill tube on the pump, and turn the fuel on. It will flow from the cut off spill tube after a few seconds, have a can handy to catch it.

    Slowly turn the engine with a breaker bar in the right direction (you should have it positioned on the compression stroke about 45 degrees before TDC before you start this) The fuel flow will continue through the pump and out the spill tube until the plunger in the pump rises enough to cut off the fuel flow. This is the beginning of injection. You'll notice the flow beginning to diminish, then slow to a trickle, and finally a slow drip over the space of a few degrees of rotation. When the drip actually stops, that is the point of injection, be careful not to go too far too quickly. Turn it back and forth a couple times to get a really good feel for the exact point where it ceases to flow.

    To make sure you're on the upward travel of the plunger, once the fuel flow has ceased, turn the engine in the direction of rotation a few quick degrees, there should be a few drops of fuel "injected" from the spill tube. If not, you're way off on your timing marks.

    Check the flywheel pointer. If you're off, decide by how much and rotate the FI pump on it's mounting studs a little bit and try again. Trial and error as to which way to turn the pump. Once it's set correctly, shut off the fuel, remove the spill tube and delivery valve nut, and replace the delivery valve plunger, spring, and upper spring seat. Everything has to be rinsed in clean fuel first. Any dirt is a killer here. Re-torque the delivery valve nut and re-tighten the clamp bolts.

    If this sounds complicated, it is... unless you do it for a living every day. I happen to do that, and we still learn from our mistakes. Every engine is different too, you need a good shop manual to get this right. I've outlined the process as best I can in print, an experienced mechanic is worth their weight in gold to help hands-on with this job.

    Unless you're really good mechanically, this is a good job for a dealer or shop. Diesel fuel injection systems are something most of us aren't equipped to work on, either tool-wise or experience.

    Hope it works out for you, and good luck!

    Chilly

  5. #15

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    Chilly, thanks for the extensive instructions. I'll give it a try if plan "G" fails (as did plans A thru F).

    PLAN G:

    I reread the entirety of my shop manual on this engine tonight looking for the overlooked and in the section on the idler gear (2-61) is a small note, "When all timing marks on gears align, the position closest to the water pump is TDC." That is piston #3 not #1 as I had assumed. This explains why my results were consistent but wrong. I'll try agian in the morning and report back.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    Problem solved. Once I understood the gear timing marks were TDC for piston #3 and not piston #1 everything just fell into place. I used the procedure I outlined earlier to line up the injection pump. Then I disconnected the FI pump gear and rotated the engine until I had both #3 TDC and "B" at the gear mesh point. With the rocker cover off it was easy to see the exhaust, intake pattern. Then I buttoned her up and took the caps off all three injection ports on the FI pump. Since 16 deg BTDC is marked for all 3 cylinders, it was easy to verify that injection was starting at just about the right moment for each cylinder. I'll fine tune it tommorrow.

    Thanks for everyone's patience and help. I'll followup in a few weeks when I try to fire her up.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    Problem not solved. See my new post on how to set the timing here.

    After I finally got it back together it still was hard starting and lot of white smoke. Compression test 200-180-225 psi respectively. Supposed to be 355. Cracked open the engine and found the cylinder bores out of round. Will be rebored this month.

    The saga continues.
    Last edited by paroxysm3; 03-07-2010 at 05:14 PM.

  8. #18
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Location
    naicam
    Tractor
    yanmar

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    I need to know how two time my fuel injection pump on my yanmar two cylinder tractor please

  9. #19
    Member veto56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    New Hope,ms
    Tractor
    john deere 720-1030-honda 4x4,ezgo

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly807 View Post
    Ok, I'll try to walk you through this.

    To establish the right rotation, remove the valve cover and watch the valves. As you rotate the engine, the exhaust valve should open, then as it begins to close, the intake should open on the piston down stroke. The intake should close as you reach BTDC, from that point on for the next 180 degrees you're on the compression stroke. Remember that the injection pump only fires on every second rotation of the engine. and near the end of the compression stroke.

    That's the easy part... if you're going to time the engine using the spill cut off method, that measures the beginning of injection, not the end. The fuel rack has to be in a certain position, usually full fuel position. If your tractor has a pull cable for shutdown, it must be in the start position. If it has a fuel solenoid, that has to be energized, or in the "run" state.

    Shut off the fuel supply before you start. There is a "delivery valve" and spring that must be removed from the pump element you're setting the engine to, normally #1. It's removed by loosening the clamping bolts across the top of the injection pump, then removing the "delivery valve nut" at the top of the pump for that cylinder. Once the nut is carefully off, you should see a small spring with upper seat and the delivery valve under it. Remove the upper spring seat, spring, and valve (leave the valve body in place), and replace the nut to the same position/torque it was before. Probably about 30 ft lbs torque.

    You need to make a "spill tube" out of an old fuel injection line, it will extend vertically about 4 inches above the pump, then smoothly bend 180 degrees downward with about a 2 or 3 inch radius, the end with no nut (injector end cut off) should be cut off at 45 degrees angle to form a sharp point.

    You're going to put the spill tube on the pump, and turn the fuel on. It will flow from the cut off spill tube after a few seconds, have a can handy to catch it.

    Slowly turn the engine with a breaker bar in the right direction (you should have it positioned on the compression stroke about 45 degrees before TDC before you start this) The fuel flow will continue through the pump and out the spill tube until the plunger in the pump rises enough to cut off the fuel flow. This is the beginning of injection. You'll notice the flow beginning to diminish, then slow to a trickle, and finally a slow drip over the space of a few degrees of rotation. When the drip actually stops, that is the point of injection, be careful not to go too far too quickly. Turn it back and forth a couple times to get a really good feel for the exact point where it ceases to flow.

    To make sure you're on the upward travel of the plunger, once the fuel flow has ceased, turn the engine in the direction of rotation a few quick degrees, there should be a few drops of fuel "injected" from the spill tube. If not, you're way off on your timing marks.

    Check the flywheel pointer. If you're off, decide by how much and rotate the FI pump on it's mounting studs a little bit and try again. Trial and error as to which way to turn the pump. Once it's set correctly, shut off the fuel, remove the spill tube and delivery valve nut, and replace the delivery valve plunger, spring, and upper spring seat. Everything has to be rinsed in clean fuel first. Any dirt is a killer here. Re-torque the delivery valve nut and re-tighten the clamp bolts.

    If this sounds complicated, it is... unless you do it for a living every day. I happen to do that, and we still learn from our mistakes. Every engine is different too, you need a good shop manual to get this right. I've outlined the process as best I can in print, an experienced mechanic is worth their weight in gold to help hands-on with this job.

    Unless you're really good mechanically, this is a good job for a dealer or shop. Diesel fuel injection systems are something most of us aren't equipped to work on, either tool-wise or experience.

    Hope it works out for you, and good luck!

    Chilly
    Im with you, off to the shop I would go.

  10. #20
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1
    Location
    Wilson,NC 27893
    Tractor
    f1145

    Default Re: Deere/Yanmar Injection Pump Static Timing - 5 Qs

    I am trying to find out what to do to rmove my injection pump from my eng so as not to get it out of time.

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