PTO leak, big mess or easy fix?

[gotoslow]

Three weeks ago bought a Ford 801 from a dealer a state way. It fit my small budget and after reading many of the postings it sounded like a basic and simple machine. They gave me an owners manual that is a reprint from a Ford 601-801 series as a starting point dated 1957. They marked chart indicating it was an 861 but it has a 4 speed transmission and no live PTO. While using the 4 foot brush hog that came with it last weekend, about 30 min worth all was good. On this Saturday was about 45 min in to cutting and had to stop to move well hidden brick in the tall grass. Disengaged the PTO, turned off the diesel engine. When walking up to the rear of the tractor oil was running out from around the lower part of the PTO shaft wher it enters the differential housing. Took it back up to the shop area and put an oil pan under it. This morning it was still dripping some and the oil pan had about 2/3 a gallon of oil in it. Is this fixable from the outside or do i have to take it back to a service dealer? Just moved to 5 acres and need to cut the weeds and plant seed so we can get ready for horse pasture next spring.

Thanks You
Jay

 

[Ford tractor]

Easy task. Messy. Drain the center section where the hydraulic fluid lives. Then drain the rear section where the differential fluid lives. The center can use universal trans hydraulic fluid. The rear section can use gear oil 75w90 or the same UTF (but I prefer to use gear oil).

You will take out the 4 bolts around the PTO shaft. Then pull straight back. You might have to use a slide hammer. Put an old PTO coupler on it and use the slide hammer on that if need be. Odds are it will come out with just hand force. Try and keep the shaft from bottoming and scraping as it leaves the center section. Check the bearing when it is out. If bad, replace. If good, put on a new gasket. Slide it in straight. You can put a pipe on the PTO shaft to get the leverage to hold it level.

I would take the time to clean out both the center section and the rear section. The bottoms of them will be covered with cra.... crud. If you want to be through, take off the hydraulic manifold (front right corner of the transmission to the bottom of the hydraulic pump). Clean out the passages by running a shotgun cleaning rod. Flush with solvent. Odd as is sounds, the dirt will hold moisture and rust those tubes out causing a bad leak.

 

[sweep]

Jay, what he ^^^^^^^^^ said but I would go ahead and replace the bearing while you have it apart...they are not that much and you know what you have..also many people cannot tell if a bearing is good or not unless it is falling part.

 

[Soundguy]

the way to judge that bearing is BEFORE ou pull the shaft out, grab the stub end and see if there is side to side movement. ( if there is in / out movement it could be a bad bearing, slipped split ring or bad bearing carrier ).

DO be carefully pullingthe shaft and re-stabbing the housing as the end of the shaft will pass thru a seal between hyds and diffy sump.

once shaft assy is out, lay a board on the floor, and then set pto shaft assy on bench, remove split ring at rear of carrier, and then tap stub end on the board, carrier will fall off.. use a 2-5/8 socket or appropriate seal drive and drive old seal out, clean up carrier and install the new seal.. flip pto shaft over with long end down, and set carrier and seal on to stub/bearing end of shaft and ease the shaft thru the seal, then tap down on that board to seat the carrier and seal on the bearing and wear ring... reinstall retainer rings, clean carrier flange and rear area on tractor.. slide back together with new gasket, add oil to diffy and hyds and go.

if there is ebaring play.. replace it.

if the wear ring is damaged.. replace it.

if you have problem with that retainer ring, use 2 small screwdrivers.. pry up and over and it will walk out of the groove.

should be a 30m job in and out, fluids and all.

soundguy

 

[gotoslow]

Having never seen the inside it sounds easy but you have to do it right or your in big trouble. I think I will just order the gasket and bearing so I will go ahead and have a new one in there, that was a good idea thank you. How long is the shaft? It sounds like it passes all the way through the differential and into the transmission, so is there a seal at that end to worry about? Is that why I need to drain out the Transmission?

Thank you for the help. I am also ordering the shop manual. I might not nove fast but want to do it correctly.

 

[Soundguy]

no one told you to drain the tranny.

you were told to drain the hyds center section and diffy. also mentioned was a seal between the diffy and hyd section that the shaft passes thru.

about a yard of shaft or so.

soundguy

 

[Ford tractor]

no one told you to drain the tranny.

you were told to drain the hyds center section and diffy. also mentioned was a seal between the diffy and hyd section that the shaft passes thru.

about a yard of shaft or so.

soundguy

Yeah, what ^ he said.

Drain differential and the center hydraulics -- transmission is the 3rd one and there is no need to mess with it.

You can also for about 125ish get the whole shaft, bearing and seal. On occasion the end of the shaft will be beat up (inside end). That happens when the bearing is shot and the shaft hammers forward and back.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. I've seen em so bad they won't come out the sliding dog clutch.. no fun fixin them either. even worse on a 9-2-8n with that belly pump

ytmag is where I buy lots of parts.. they have a shaft assy ready to slid ein for 105$

PTO Shaft - Conversion Assembly - PTO Conversion Assembly For 600, 700, 800, 900 (converts 1-1\8" shaft to 1-3\8" shaft, 6 spline). Length 32 11\16". (Part No: NCA700-38) $105.43

pay no attention that it does not mention 801/841

same shaft will fit all the standard gear models from 55-64 ( no sos and no naa.. yada yada yada )

soundguy

 

[gotoslow]

Ok Looking closer I see that there is another drain point after the transmission. Thank you. Being that it is almost as old as me I will get the whole assembly then I will know that part is good. Looks like YTmag has manuals too and I an certian I will need them along with your advice and insights.

 

[Soundguy]

don't assume that just because it is old it is bad.

IMHO many people like to rebuild the old shafts vs getting the new ones. there is a percieved 'better' metalurgy' in the older ones.

mind you, IF the bearing is worn, AND the slip ring is worn, it is for sure, LESS WORK to just get a new shaft assy, as sometimes getting the bearing off requires a triver, and same with seating it.. and for sure on the slip ring.. must be driven on, and the old one sometimes you have to cut off / split to remove.... if you don't have the tools to split the beairng or ring, or the tools for the flush circlips at the rear of the bearing carrier flange.. it may be easier to plug and play. also, if the old shaft is damaged, has any twist to it, external splines worn, or the thru hole in the shaft elongated, or the rear splines wore, or mushroomed.. then sure.. it's replacement part time.. etc.

don't stress out about it either way, the rebuild parts to recon the shaft , ie, the bearing, seal, slip ring and gasket will set you back , depending on where you get them, and shipping, as much as half the cost of the entire new assembly anyway.

ps, if you do replace the old shaft with a new assy.. take pics of the old one and post em.. many people will buy your old shaft for salvage $ and postage if the shaft ends are good and no twisting. I like to buy old parts and rebuild them and then pack in grease and leave on the shelf for when needed. I usually do 2-3 pto shaft rebuilds a year, and it's nice to have one on the shelf ready to go when needed.

soundguy