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  1. #21
    Silver Member Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    136
    Location
    Huntingdon, PA
    Tractor
    John Deere 790

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    As always, I'm amazed by the expertise and good advise I get on TBN.... You guys are great! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    So far, it looks like R_Squared's Battery Minder recommendation is the best bet for me.

    I let the battery set for the winter in my Pump-House, I keep an 18" electic baseboard heater going over the winter to keep things from freezing up (set at 40 degrees). It works great, no problems since I put it in 3 years ago.

  2. #22
    Elite Member thcri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,693
    Location
    Minnesota SE
    Tractor
    New Holland TC29D, 2001

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have worked on some vintage battery chargers.. these may have benn 50's or 60's vintage... maybee 40's.. but I doubt it.. they used selenium rectifiers.. those were a bit leaky... )</font>

    Gee Soundguy you aging my equipment here. I have a battery charger that is more of a trickle charger and I can't say it is more than 5 years old. I use on smaller batteries only like my 4 wheeler. But if I leave it hooked up it will drain the battery in a couple of days. Can't tell you what brand it is because I have abused it pretty good. It is 12v and only a 1 amp trickle.

    murph

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    247
    Location
    mid- Maine
    Tractor
    Century 3045

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    What would be the difference between the "maintainer" function on an electronic battery charger and the BatteryMINDer you mention? The unit I mention shuts off until it experiences a low charge then slowly brings the battery up to 13.2 and shuts off again. Even with a normal charger, I think it would be tough to experience boil out when you share 2 amps amongst six batteries in temps from 20 to below zero. Done this for three years now and never have to add water or "top off" the charge on the battery before installing!
    Pacesetter

  4. #24
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    0

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    Pacesetter300

    The sulphation process starts when your trickle charger shuts off. Sulphation continues during the batteries self-discharge until your trickle charger starts back up. Over time crystals of lead sulphate build up on the lead plates and prevent the battery from achieving a full charge. The BatteryMINDer is always on. It charges the battery with 1 amp dc and when fully charged changes state to a high frequency (lower MHz), pulse-modulated power supply. It's the high frequency, pulse-modulated mode that prevents sulphation and maintains the battery. Several years ago Popular Mechanics gave the BatteryMINDer a good review. I can post several bitmaps of BatteryMinder's pulse-modulated waveform that I captured on my Fluke 199 Scopemeter if you are interested.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    247
    Location
    mid- Maine
    Tractor
    Century 3045

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    You obviously know a lot more about this than I do. I think I've been doing the right thing without knowing it. By connecting six batteries together, the charger is almost always on, but assuming equal draw, each battery is only getting 1/3 amp. With the warrantys on batteries today - up to 7 years, it's probably cheaper to let them die and pay the pro rated amount. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
    Thanks for the insight
    Pacesetter

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    1,806
    Location
    Houston, TX.
    Tractor
    2001 TN65, 1951 8N Ford

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    Because if there is battery acid on the case it'll eat the concrete.

    I need to remember to read down the thread before I post! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

  7. #27
    Old Timer Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    51,818
    Location
    Central florida
    Tractor
    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Gee Soundguy you aging my equipment here. I have a battery charger that is more of a trickle charger and I can't say it is more than 5 years old. I use on smaller batteries only like my 4 wheeler. But if I leave it hooked up it will drain the battery in a couple of days. Can't tell you what brand it is because I have abused it pretty good. It is 12v and only a 1 amp trickle.
    )</font>

    Gee.. I only can guess at why... If it has a diode in line with the output to rectify the current.. that diode.. if functioning properly shouldn't allow reverse current.

    Here are some ideas: Rectifier is breaking down in reverse direction way too easilly... ( need new rectifier ).

    There is a filter capacitor across the output and it is leaky. ( this does happen )
    Sometimes there is a blead resistor across the capacitor to discharge it after the unit is energized. This will be after the rectifier, and yes, would allow the battery to discharge back through that resistor. If built like this... it is a shoddy design with no forward thinking.. as addition of another rectifier after this stage would prevent it from discharging the battery.. but would still let it discharge the capacitor.

    I have also seen some chinsy designs that use a load resistor ( sometimes in combination with a zenir diode .. making it a shunt limiter ) as a form of limiter to 'preload' the charge circuit.. it is therefore never running open loop, as it always sees that load resistor. Again.. this could discharge the battery.. but it is a bad design.. addition of another rectifier would allow it to limit charge but not discharge the battery.

    Generally most battery chargers especially trickle chargers don't use filters on the dc side, as it isn't really needed.. the voltage will come up steady even with half wave rectified voltage.

    I would be interested inseeing the inside of that charger.. if you ever open it.. snap a pic so I can identify the type of charge circuit they have used.

    In any event, you could add a germanium diode inline with the charging wires and it won't discharge back through the charger. You will see a .4 drop in charging voltage at the battery. If the charger is charging sufficiently higher ( 13.6 ), it shouldn't be a problem. Check the open circuit voltage the charger is produceing. Many will run up in the 15-16 range with no load. Measure just the output of the charger with no load. if you are charging at 13.6 or above, the addition of the germanium diode should still let the charging voltage be high enough to charge that 12 cell.

    Soundguy

  8. #28
    Old Timer Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    51,818
    Location
    Central florida
    Tractor
    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Long Term Battery Storage

    One more idea.. if there is a charge indicator light ( not an led.. there current dra is in the low MA range.. would take forever for them to drain a battery ).. anyway.. if there is a charge indicator lamp.. and they wired it to monitor the output.. If it stays lit when the charger is un plugged.. then it can drain the battery.

    Soundguy

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