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  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    10
    Location
    Florida
    Tractor
    Kabota L245DT / L3710hst

    Default Question for top n tilt users

    Question for top n tilt users

    I have top n tilt on my kubota 3710 hst.
    I don't have any problem with the tilt, but the top link is another story.
    when I use my box blade the cylinder on the top link compresses when the box blade starts filling
    with dirt, sometimes as much as 3" and returns when the load is released. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
    I told the dealer I bought it from and they said Its suppose to do that. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
    Well I may be new to top n tilt but I don't think its suppose to compress that much. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
    After many MANY phone calls to the dealer, they said it was the quick connects, so they replaced them.
    No difference same problem. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
    After many more phone calls to the dealer, they said it was the cylinder, so they replaced it.
    No difference same problem. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
    Now they say its the remote valves, but they won't replace it, instead they want to try and rebuild it, and said it will take 2 to 4 weeks.
    I was hoping one of you top n tilt users would have some Ideas or advice to what it might be?
    I've switched the top link hoses with the side tilt hoses (the quick connects that is, so the tilt remote would operate the top link and the top link remote would operate the tilt, no
    difference, the top link still compresses when under load and returns when load is released.

    Thank you in advance for any help and advise. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Les

  2. #2

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    Not familiar with that kubota, does it have draft control ? if so this could be your problem. If it does not have draft control it sounds like air in system.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    579
    Location
    Harrisburg, Illinois
    Tractor
    MF 165, Kioti 2554

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    Install a double pilot operated check valve like the ones CCI has shown in the attachments forum. The only way fluid can exhaust from the cylinder is for hydraulic pressure to be applied to the opposite port. Stops the drift. Short of that, if the cyliner returns to its original position after releasing the load, bleed the cylinder - air will compress and return like an air shock. Hydraulic fluid will not compress.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Rowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    1,478
    Location
    North Central Vermont, Jay Peak Area
    Tractor
    2004 New Holland TN70DA with 32LC loader, 2000 New Holland 2120 with Curtis cab, 7309 loader

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    As JimMC mentioned you need the doudle piloted check valve. CCI has top links with them installed.

    CCI post

    I think that it is possible that you may have fluid leaking internal in the cylinder. I'm pretty sure the doule piloted check valves would keep the cylinder from moving even if you cylinder was leaking internally.
    I started a topic about hydraulic top links. Has some pictures from CCI showing his cylinder setup.

  5. #5
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    849
    Location
    northfield connecticut
    Tractor
    gradall g3r excavator, kawasaki mule 2500,ford 8000,and a 1936 caterpillar road grader

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    rowski, the pilot operated check valves will not keep your cylinder from moving if its leaking internaly, all it does is keep fluid from being able to go back out the port, if the fluid is leaking past the piston inside it will still creep

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
    Approved Advertiser
    HayDR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,864
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Tractor
    JD 2040,2240, 2355, 2755, 4055

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    Concerning welded cylinders:
    Most often the selection valve and or couplers will have the greatest incidence of "bleed by"more than a cylinder having a by pass problem. Welded cylinders of today are made to exacting tolerances much better than cylinders of yester years and or Tie-Rod cylinders. The key to longevity is proper maintenance of the hydraulic filters in the tractor. If the hydraulic fluid has trash in it will eventually cut the O rings and packing used and cause bleed by problems in the entire system.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Rowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    1,478
    Location
    North Central Vermont, Jay Peak Area
    Tractor
    2004 New Holland TN70DA with 32LC loader, 2000 New Holland 2120 with Curtis cab, 7309 loader

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    This is true for single pilot operated check valves. This top link has a double piloted check valve, a valve for each side of the piston in cylinder. If the fluid is creeping by to the other side wouldn't the other pilot valve keep it from leaking out? I'm curious?

    I know the wreck we have at work has polit valves because if the pump is off and you move the spool valves nothing moves. Hence the safety.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    Don't forget that you have 2 chambers with different max. volume in double acting cylinder (two different cross section working area). When cylinder is compressed, you have smaller chamber (with rod inside) filled with oil, and when cylinder is extended (with rod outside), bigger chamber is filled with oil. Double pilot valve (or stop valve, as I called it before) blocks oil flow outside the cylinder. And if you have internal leak in cylinder pack, oil can flow only in direction from smaller chamber to bigger, and make vacuum in bigger chamber. Another way of oil flow is not possible, because, oil is not compressable.
    That means: if you leave your attachment raised on 3pt, and have internal leak in top link cylinder, it will extend during time, and opposite - if you leave cylinder extended, push force (pressure) will NOT retract (compress) it.
    Hope this helps. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    10
    Location
    Florida
    Tractor
    Kabota L245DT / L3710hst

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    No, I don't have draft control.
    I thought it was air also.
    I've switched the inlet & outlet lines while operating the remote valves to try and get the air out, but problem still present.

    Thank you. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Les

  10. #10
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    10
    Location
    Florida
    Tractor
    Kabota L245DT / L3710hst

    Default Re: Question for top n tilt users

    Can this double pilot operated check valve be purchased separately, or do I have to buy a cylinder with it already installed?
    If it can be purchased separately, Where would I find one and about how much do they cost?

    Thank You. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Les

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