How Critical Water in Trans/Hyd Fluid?

[Crashcup]

I think this question is more general than just for my IH 444, so will try here in this forum.

First, I am new to owning and maintaining a tractor. So, my first mistake may have been not checking the fluids on the IH 444 I bought. I honestly wouldn't have known where to have a look at the trans/hyd fluid, and didn't even know that they are one and the same.

One of the hydraulic couplers had an o-ring fail, and from the resulting leak, I could see the fluid was very milky-looking. I drained the fluid from both reservoirs and replaced with new fluid from TSC that is supposed to replace IH Hy-Tran.

Well, after checking the fluid level today, it's still milky-looking. Apparently I didn't get all the water out. There are 4 drain plugs involved; I pulled all those, and opened and drained a large canister-type suction filter before the front-mounted aux pump, and pulled a large suction hose off the back and let that drain out at ground level. I figured that there would be a small amount of water left, and that would be okay and would hopefully evaporate out from use. It took 20 gallons total to refill. I would have thought whatever water was left would be a very small proportion. How much can be left in hyd lines and cylinders?

Will the oil look milky even with a small amount of water in it?

How bad is this situation for the hydraulics or trans? I'm hesitant to change out the fluid again, it's 20 gallons, and that ain't exactly cheap.

Any tips for getting all the water out? Do I need to disconnect hoses and cylinders and try to drain all that?

Thanks

 

[ThomasH]

Most tractors have internal ribs in the transmission cases that will trap some fluid, plus lines, etc. You can have a fair amount of water trapped in a system after "draining" it. If the water is particularly bad, you might have to change the fluid as many as 3 times to get it almost clean. You need to run it for an hour or so each time to make sure that you pick up any trapped water in the case. Since the fluid is hydroscopic, it will pick up remaining water and when you change the fluid (and filter if the fluid is bad enough), it will come noticeably cleaner with each change.

Have you corrected the reason for water getting into the case in the first place? If not, you may never have good fluid...

 

[Jerry/MT]

If tractors stored under cover will get water in the sumps from condensation and this is a common problem for tractors that are not used often. Operating the tractor will heat the fluid and evaporate the water.

Some people will add a gallon or so of alchohol (not Jack Daniels!) to the contaminated fluid and run it for a while and then drain it. The theory is that alchhol is hygroscopic and will pick up the water and it will come out when the mixture is drained. You also need to let the drain go on overnight to get as much fluid out as possible.

You've probably removed most of the water so I would work the machine for a while on a regular basis and then evaluate the condition of the fluid. If it stays milky then you might consider a redrain using the alchohol technique.

If the tractor has set for a long time with water contamination, there emight be some sludge formation in th e sumps that can cause filters to clog etc. Water in the fluid is pretty common, it's not good, but it is rarely fatal in the short term. It's always good to try to get all the contaminated fluid out when you make a change but it's not extremely critical. These tractor hydraulic systems are pretty forgiving.

 

[pat32rf]

When you let the drained fluid sit overnight do you get any water in the bottom of the container? It is just possible that the " milky" fluid is from microscopic air bubbles and not water....

 

[Crashcup]

Thomas, as far as the source of the water, the previous owner used it infrequently, and stored it outside, so condensation is a definite possibility, and maybe some rainwater found it's way in? In the short time I've had it, I've been using it more than the PO certainly, and we've had a dry summer but I tarped it the couple of times it rained Hoping to get a small shed cleaned out soon to store it under cover.

Jerry, I think you answered the question I hadnt asked yet. Was wondering if there's anything to help flush it out rather than emptying and refilling oil several times. A bit spendy at about $150 for oil each refill. Are you talking about isopropyl alcohol like at a drugstore?

Pat, thanks for your suggestion also. The drained oil is in a barrel now, but if I have a chance I'll try that.

 

[Soundguy]

if it milked up as bad as it was.. i'd dump in a quart or 2 of atf-f, a gallon of diesel.. or mineral spirits.. or kerosene and a bunch(3-4) of pints of walmart 90% alcohol.. run till plenty warm and then drain.. then refill with that tsc utf... after that you may still get a lil moisture picked up.. but it should evap when warm from running..

 

[Jerry/MT]

I think soundguy answered the alchohol question. Basically he's said rubbing alchohol and that's usually isopropyl alchohol. As far as usage goes, you can feel the casting after a a half hours worth of work and it's warmed up. These gear boxes/and rear axles are ~ 90% mechanical efficiency so that ~10% of the work shows up as heat and that warms up the oil and helps evaporate the water.
Having a dry summer doesn't mean you won't have condensation.Look at the relative humidity at night. It gets pretty high. We have 20-25 % humidity during the day and 90+% humidity at night and i'd wager we are way drier than you are in Minnestota. Try to keep the shift levers covered if the tractor sits out because you can get rain running down them and into the gearbox if the rubber boots are not snug or are damaged.