LUBE FOR KUBOTA MMM - some say use UDT?

[mreatwork]

The BX1860 is back from the dealership for repair/warranty work prior to the expiration of the warranty. The primary concern was overheating while mowing. The secondary concern was the leaking lube from the MMM gearbox. Long story short, the dealer claims the seal on the gearbox was hit by a stick or a gumball and caused the seal to leak, consequently making the engine work too hard and overheat. The Kubota rep that happened by thinks its because I'm not operating WFO.

I think they're both wrong.

I'd like opinons on this from another forum:

Super UDT was formulated for the specific demands of L-series Glide Shift transmissions as well as hydrstatic transmissions in extreme cold weather applications. Essentially UDT is about 20 weight and Super about 10 weight. They are interchangeable as far as your application. Pricewise you will save with regular UDT. The only difference you may notice would be in Jan-Feb if it gets below 10-20 F it may take longer for oil to warm up and loader and transmission to work properly. DO use the same UDT in your front axle AND mower gearbox. DO NOT use 80w-90 gear oil in axle. Straight 80 or straight 90 like older owner's manuals referred to do not exist this side of the big pond. MOST IMPORTANT, not just because I'm a dealer, only use Kubota brand UDT or Super UDT in your tractor transmission to ensure warranty coverage. If you have a transmission warranty issue and it is related to non-approved oil then our hands are tied. In your engine, however, use any SAE certified diesel-rated engine oil from a major brand according to viscosity in your book. Pennzoil, Quaker State, Kendall, Valvoline (which is who bottles Kubota's branded oil), etc. just stay with same brand for life of engine. By the way, your dealer should have covered all of this at delivery.

I'm not entirely comfortable not following the book on what lube to use.

Link to the other discussion:
UDT-Super UDT

Thanks.

 

[PsRumors]

Not running WFO when using a MMM can cause an engine to overheat of it puts to much strain on the engine.

 

[mreatwork]

Not running WFO when using a MMM can cause an engine to overheat of it puts to much strain on the engine.

Right. I AM running WFO. I should have clarified that.

I think 1. The dealer suggesting use UDT is correct and/or 2. The gearbox vent was somehow clogged. Plus it gets pretty warm in St. Louis.


I also noticed Kubota calls for new MMM seals every two years. Replacing the seals and bearings was $300.

Is anyone else having a problem with blown MMM seals and has anyone tried using lighter weight lube to avoid this issue?

 

[David_Kb7uns]

From BX2230 and G2160 manual (both use same deck) the gearbox on the mower deck should be 90w GL5 gear oil. Front axle can be Super UDT or 90w gear oil if you are doing heavy work or seals are seeping then most go to 90w. Not sure why he is saying only UDT as there are high speed hypoid gears in there, just do not overfill. There are three plugs on gearbox drain, fill/vent and check on side for proper level.

As for the other forum they are smoking something or want mechanic work as they are incorrect if you read the owners and shop manuasl and the BX hydro DOES need Super UDT.
For the overheating check the screen in front of radiator under dash for clogging up with junk and double check temp reading with other means as some of the BX temp sensors are not real accurate.


David Kb7uns

 

[oldnslo]

For the overheating check the screen in front of radiator under dash for clogging up with junk and double check temp reading with other means as some of the BX temp sensors are not real accurate.


David Kb7uns

On my BX1850 the sending unit for the temp gauge was located next to the muffler and was very unreliable in warmer weather. I installed a heat shield and flame resistant cover/wrap on the sensor which helped some but it was still very easy to get the temp gauge in the red. Sending unit checked out fine.

I rarely ran full throttle but was also conscious of load on the engine. Usually ran ran around 2500 - 2700 RPM.

 

[radioman]

Right. I AM running WFO. I should have clarified that.

I think 1. The dealer suggesting use UDT is correct and/or 2. The gearbox vent was somehow clogged. Plus it gets pretty warm in St. Louis.


I also noticed Kubota calls for new MMM seals every two years. Replacing the seals and bearings was $300.

Is anyone else having a problem with blown MMM seals and has anyone tried using lighter weight lube to avoid this issue?

I also noticed the same thing in manual about seals and I couldnt get a straight answer either. I am copying and paste an old email that messicks and I responded with in 2010. FYI - I have NOT replaced the seals since buying the MMM deck, but this winter (2013) I have a oill spot under the mower gearbox on floor now. It appears to be coming out of the vent.

Radioman,

I have seen this before in the service intervals, although in this shop we have never changed that seal unless it leaks. Kubota has that standard on their intervals because rubber seals can dry rot and cause leaks. I have seen seals go out after 1 year or have seen them stay good for lifetime of unit. After 2 years of use we do not change the oil seals in the gearboxes unless we see damage or wear on them.

Any other questions don't hesitate to let me know.

Thank you.

Andy Rohrer
Messick's Elizabethtown
Lawn & Garden Shop Manager
1-800-222-3373
717-361-4821 (Direct)
717-367-6662 (Fax)


________________________________________
From: Neil Messick
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 5:42 PM
To: Andy Rohrer
Subject: can you help? RCK60b23bx
Originally Posted by MessickFarmEqu
Quote:
Originally Posted by radioman
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessickFarmEqu
Quote:
Originally Posted by radioman
Neil or whomever can answer,

My owners manual states the seals needs to be replace on the 60 inch mower deck for the BX24. It doesnt say where the seals are and whats included. Do you have the part diagram and whats the cost for the seal kit for replacing the seals?

There is a discussion on this right now, so hopefully you could input some info for all of us, but I definitely need to buy a seal kit. My gear box doesnt leak at all, but due to manual states it should be replaced every 2 years, and it been 4 years, I am afraid I am on borrowed time.

Can you help ?

thanks!
bill


I'm sorry, I just found this. Did you ever get squared away?
No I havent been squared away. Either you or someone just sent me a copy of the parts diagram. Not what I wanted to know. Let me try to explain again- basically the kubota manual says to replace seals every 2 years - I have no idea what they are talking about. Do you ? I am on the 3rd year using the MMM and not sure what to replace. Nothing is leaking - but basically I had the time when I sent you email to get ready for spring/summer mowing and wanted to be it in top notch condition. I already changed the gear oil and started mowing with it. So now I just need the answer what the heck the manual is talking about with replacing seals every 2 years and I'd like to get ready for this fall this time.

Neil Messick
Messick Farm Equipment
187 Merts Drive
Elizabethtown PA, 17022
Direct @ 717-361-4850
Office @ 800-222-3373
Messick's | Dealer for New Holland, Case IH, Kubota, Cub Cadet and More | Online Parts, Sales & Service.

 

[aczlan]

For the overheating check the screen in front of radiator under dash for clogging up with junk and double check temp reading with other means as some of the BX temp sensors are not real accurate.

I would also check the radiator fins themselves. Our BX2660 got enough dirt and dandelion fuzz in the radiator (through the screen) that it would get into the red zone within 5 mins of heavy mowing. The radiator ended up getting pulled to wash it out.

Aaron Z

 

[mreatwork]

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful, as usual.

I've been all over the overheating issue, to the point of obsession. Link to old thread ->http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/216864-bx1860-overheats.html

From the repair invoice dated 03.13.2013:

HEAT GAUGE READS TOO HOT ONLY WHEN USING MOWER. CUST TOOK TEMP BY SENDER - IT WAS 205 DEGREES. GEAR BOX ON MOWER LEAKS - BELT IS DAMAGED

DIAGNOSIS - UNIT RUNS 3450-3500 RPMS, OIL FULL, COOLANT FULL - NEVER GOT ABOVE 175 DEGREES - RADIATOR CLEAN - CAN SHINE LIGHT THRU - 20 DEG DROP FROM TOP TO BOTTOM OF RADIATOR - MAYBE MOWER DECK IS LOADING UP ENGINE FROM BELT SLIPPING

FROM KUBOTA SERVICE: TEST TEMP SENDER & GAUGE SPECS FINE ALSO CHECK NEW TRACTOR SPECS - THE SAME SPECS NEVER OVERHEATING

It goes on to say they replaced the seals and bearings, belt and balanced/sharpened the blades because "FOUND STICK OR GUMBALL GOT INTO LOWER SEAL AND CAUSED LEAKING - WHATEVER IT WAS ALSO WEAR THE PAINT OFF PULLEY FROM RUBBING".

$349.09 and three weeks later, I have it back in my garage.


The service writer advised me to run it as much as I can before the warranty expiresd on May 1, 2013 to check for overheating. OK, except it probably won't get warm enough by May 1 to make sure it's fixed in July. He went on the say, even though it's a known problem identified prior to warranty expiration, the warranty is done on May 1. I complained to the guy at the service desk and he indicated they may extend it for a short period considering the circumstances.

Anyway, I dropped the deck this morning just to check it out prior to using the mower this season. I greased the fittings and checked the gear lube from the oil filler plug. Lube came out of the filler plug at a pretty good rate.

So, now the question is - considering this is the same dealer that prepped the tractor when I purchased it - do they overfill the MMM gearbox, making the lube leak through the vent, soaking the belt, causing slippage and overload on the engine?

I plan to drain off the lube to "just below the check plug port" according to the manual ( that I now have as a part of my $350 expenditure).