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  1. #11
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Holland 570 baler making short / small bales

    Kevin.
    Some of the things(#4,#7)you mentioned are not available on my JD 347 baler & some I disagree with(#6,#9,#10,#11) & won't affect bale lengths irregularity. #12 if baler is set for correct length bales will just cause longer bales but not shorter bales. I guess people look at things down under differently than us Texans.
    Jim

  2. #12
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    Default Re: New Holland 570 baler making short / small bales

    Longer was being referred to
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  3. #13
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Holland 570 baler making short / small bales

    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK View Post
    Longer was being referred to
    This is a copy & paste of the 1st paragraph of this thread.
    [/quote]I've got a NH 570 baler that was working fine until last crop. I was baling alfalfa and it started making small half-sized bales. I'd say about 15% of the bales were short and the rest were all fine. I'm thinking it could be the trip arm. Maybe it's loose? Maybe it could be something else?[/quote]

  4. #14
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    Default Re: New Holland 570 baler making short / small bales

    Quote Originally Posted by coondle View Post
    There are about a dozen causes of irregular bale length, but only about 3 for short bales.
    The first thing to check is that the trip arm is free to pivot, check that the locknut on the pivot point is not overtightened then ensure the bush in the pivot is not rusted or out of shape. The trip arm has to be able to fall freely. there must be no obstruction to the trip arm falling back to the vertical stop.
    The second is to make sure the metering wheel is properly adjusted, the metering wheel is held by bolts in slotted holes on the top of the bale chute, there must be a gap of 3mm (1/8 inch) between the friction wheel (which is inside two discs) and the trip arm
    The trip arm can be worn
    Quote Originally Posted by coondle View Post
    There are about a dozen causes of irregular bale length, but only about 3 for short bales.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    I've been associated with sq balers since the mid 60's and I can't think of a dozen things that can cause irregular & short bale lengths. Would you please list them? Thanks,Jim
    Quote Originally Posted by coondle View Post
    Thanks for the interest Tx Jim, like you I prefer to see substantiation of claims made.
    To me the term irregular bale length means intermittent bales that are shorter or longer than the bale length set by the operator and the variation is greater than the acceptable range of variability.
    There are more causes of long bales than short bales in my experience, and I have been associated with hay from childhood on my fathers property even seeing baling done with a Massey Harris stationary wire twitch baler with manually inserted wooden separators between each bale, hay brought in with a sweep and power to the baler via a broad belt from a tractor.
    Back to the issue!
    I have referred to three and an unlikely fourth cause already.
    1. The trip arm not pivoting freely because of:
    a overtightened locknut;
    b rust in pivot point relevant for a machine operating ok the previous year and now out of storage;and
    c deformed or damaged bushing in the pivot point.
    2. Metering wheel not properly adjusted. If the clearance is insufficient the ttrip arm catches early as it drops instead od falling all the way to the adjustable stop.
    3. The trip arm may be worn, on the 570 the trip arm is toothed and could give inconsistent bale lengths, usually bales too long if the wear causes slippage of the metering wheel but if the wear has the metering arm curve misshapen the the trip arm may catch too soon when falling.
    The causes of long bales include the worn trip arm referred to above depending on how the wear affects operation and:
    4 Worn friction disc which is the drive from the metering wheel to the trip arm, if that slips then more hay into the bale before trip arm is activated.. replace friction disc
    5. Slippage of the trip arm on the friction disc caused by spring tension on the trip arm being too low >tighten or replace spring
    6. Poor density adjustment:
    a density too low.increase density
    b wedges in the bale chute not delivering consistent bales
    7. Hydraulic tension becoming variable
    a pressure relief valve stuck >clean it.
    b dirt in oil pipes etc causing uneven oil flow>clean out and change oil.
    8. Uneven feed because of uneven windrows. Intermittent overfeeding can occur if a big slug of hay goes into a bale as it is about to trip then that biscuit is much larger than usual the bale is that much longer. I have found this as a particular problem baling pea straw out of windrows with multiple passes of the rake and more so if the windrows have been moved by wind.
    9. Loose knotter disc brake. > tighten the spring loaded nylock nuts ton ensure correct tension.
    10.Pickup drive belt not slipping another cause of overfeeding > adjust pickup drive belt or remove paint or rust from the pulley sheaves, another issue arising when balers are removed from storage and particularly so if stored in the weather between seasons.
    11. Knotter stop not allowing it to release after the trip arm is activated or jumps forward >adjust the knotter stop .
    12. Driving too fast and overfeeding the baler which can cause banana bales and irregular length bales. eg if instead of the recommended 12 to 14 strokes to fill a 36" bale the feed rate though even goes up such that there are 8 or 9 strokes to fill a bale the variation in bale length could be 5" without any uneven feed issues. With such rapid feeding if the baler accepts 8 strokes and ties the bale and on the next bale 8 only puts the trip mechanism on the brink of tripping a full extra charge goes into the next bale before tripping.
    You can see how the rated capacity of a baler is arrived at.
    A NH 570 optimal maximum per hour is 450 bales, ie 92 strokes per minute at 12 strokes per 36" bale for 60 minutes gives 459.999 bales and allowing for a few bales with more than 12 stokes comes near as ****** is to swearing to 450 bales per hour
    Hope this helps, thanks Kevin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    Kevin.
    Some of the things(#4,#7)you mentioned are not available on my JD 347 baler & some I disagree with(#6,#9,#10,#11) & won't affect bale lengths irregularity. #12 if baler is set for correct length bales will just cause longer bales but not shorter bales. I guess people look at things down under differently than us Texans.
    Jim
    Quote Originally Posted by SPYDERLK View Post
    Longer was being referred to
    Quote Originally Posted by Tx Jim View Post
    This is a copy & paste of the 1st paragraph of this thread.
    I've got a NH 570 baler that was working fine until last crop. I was baling alfalfa and it started making small half-sized bales. I'd say about 15% of the bales were short and the rest were all fine. I'm thinking it could be the trip arm. Maybe it's loose? Maybe it could be something else?
    Try reading. ... Visual aids are now incorporated.
    larry
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  5. #15
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    Default Re: New Holland 570 baler making short / small bales

    Thanks for the reply,but you seem to have misunderstood my posts regarding irregular [length] bales, my first reply addressed the 15% short bales experienced and then discussion extended to causes of other length irregularities. The discussion was in relation to NH 570 balers on which I have at least a little experience, some good and some not so good, as most of us have had with haying gear. Haying gear has been described as some of the most frustrating gear on a farm, computers may be up there now particularly for technophobes like me.
    As I have said nh 570's can outbale almost anything else.
    Every brand of baler has its own suite of peculiar problems and some that are common across brands.
    The Nh 570 and 575 balers are sensitive to overfeeding which causes bale shape (banana) and bale length (usually long) issues.
    In relation to the item I labelled 9 on the pickup belt drive.
    Your JD baler has a spiral cross transfer system that tends to smooth out pickup volume variations.
    The NH570 on the other hand has a rotor system which simply transfers any pickup feed variation direct to the packer fork.
    If you carefully watch a NH570 pickup in operation when the baler is approaching capacity you will see a series of pauses in the flow of hay into the the cross-transfer area. ie the pickup drive belt slips, showing up as a pause.
    The moment the pickup belt slips corresponds with the moment the rotors are in the vertical down position blocking with metal the entry of more material in to the cross-transfer area. The pickup resumes the transfer of material once the rotors are at about the 4 o'clock to 8 o'clock (viewed from the front) positions. Your JD does tot have this cyclical blocking of the cross-transfer area.
    Following delivery of my machine (new) my complaints of poor bale shape and variable length were met with "it needs to wear in" from the dealer.
    Second year I got far more insistent as I considered that after 30,000 plus bales any wearing in should be complete.
    After a process of elimination I discovered that the pickup belt sheaves where the belt runs were still fully coated by paint.
    I needed to get slippage to wear the paint off, but at the least tension on the long threaded adjustment there was still no slippage so I extended the adjustment with a wire link and once the paint was worn off was able to revert to the long threaded adjuster. There was a dramatic improvement in bale shape and length consistency. I still have issues with bale shape in seasons where there is low straw strength.
    In regard to item 11 the knotter stop
    The knotter stop holds the knotters in position until the trip arm moves forward which releases the clutch pawl, engaging the drive thus activating the knotter cycle. This is one I missed earlier in regard to short bales because if the clutch pawl is released too early a short bale results and if too late a bale that is too long is created. I have only seen this problem once in the many decades of my involvement in haying!
    I have owned and operated 8 balers starting with a NH Super 66 with a NH570 now, and worked on many more because few people take the time to study and understand knotters in particular. My baler works for only around 30 hours per year and when I was contracting hours of work per year were less than 100. However a full year's income can hinge on those few hours so I have studied the operation of my baler very closely and was fortunate to have also received advice and instruction from one of the very few mechanics in our district to have a handle on how knotters work. With the transition to rolls and big squares there is now only some half dozen reasonably sized small bale operations in our district, of them I am in the lower range with last year 9500 own and 2000 or so contract bales. The largest does 50,000 to 70,000pa. There are many small operators up to a couple of thousand bales pa.
    When it comes to balers there are subtle variations even between models in the same manufacturers range. For example every comparison I have heard between NH 570 and 575 are that they are the same baler except for the pickup width.
    Yes the pickup width and pickup wheel are different but the knotter stack arrangement is also different with completely different procedures to adjust end play in the knotter stack. Knotter frame removal is also by different procedures. The 570 knotter stack has to be disassembled to remove the knotter frame whereas a 575 knotter frame can be taken out without disassembling all of the knotter stack.
    I do not want to enter into an argument with you but felt there was a little misunderstanding over what I said previously.
    As with any advice you can accept in whole in part or reject it completely. I offered my experience in good faith and everyone should remember gratuitous advice may only be worth that which you have paid for it!
    BUT it also may be worth infinitely more than that which you have paid for it
    Best regards
    Kevin

  6. #16
    Elite Member Tx Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Holland 570 baler making short / small bales

    Quote Originally Posted by coondle View Post
    As I have said nh 570's can outbale almost anything else.
    Every brand of baler has its own suite of peculiar problems and some that are common across brands.
    The Nh 570 and 575 balers are sensitive to overfeeding which causes bale shape (banana) and bale length (usually long) issues.Kevin
    Kevin
    Woo-hoo on your NH baler out baling my JD 347 baler I'd rather have 250 uniform square(actually rectangular) bales than 500 banana shaped/different length bales from your NH baler ANYDAY. You are correct about every brand baler having it's own peculiar problems and as I mentioned JD balers don't have some of the 12 or so you outlined.
    Jim

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