Detroit diesel problem

[nspec]

Never in my life had to bleed a detroit - and I've run plenty. If it's airbound, keep cranking and it will bleed itself. Did you check that latch on your air box damper I was telling you about? Probably the most common cause of a detroit not starting.

 

[chrisdvorak]

I did check the latch and it was in the open position. just to make sure I put it in the other position and it made no change. I cranked it until the battery's were dead then charged them and kept cranking in 30 second intervals with no change. I don't want to go much more than that as its a pricey starter to replace and not a fun job.

 

[bluebirdacres]

The machine is a trojan 164a loader and the engine is a 2 stroke 3-53 detroit. the problem I am having is the engine will start and run for about 10 mins then it will slowly die. if you try to start it again right after it will not run, but if you wait awhile it will start again and do the same thing. when it does run it revs up and idles fine and blows no smoke. This problem seemed to start when the weather got cold but I don't think its gelled fuel. the fuel filters have been replaced recently. I am thinking fuel pump but I haven't seen one fail like this before.

- thanks

Is this is the same machine that is in the fuel and lubricant forum that when you unloaded it the fuel tank contained gasoline? May be a problem related with the gasoline or the filter change and bleeding process.

 

[nspec]

These are really simple engines, so I think you have a simple problem - just a matter of finding it. I've never had a detroit not start. Seen one run after it shot a rod through the side of the block....seen one run with a liner in pieces.....they just start up and run - unless they have no fuel.

Please ignore everyone telling you to crack lines and bleed returns, blah, blah, blah. Detroits are self priming. They have a positive displacement gear driven fuel pump. It is a low pressure fuel system with unit injectors that make their own pressure individually. There are pushrods, springs and tappetts to activate the plunger on each individual injector allowing the fuel charge determined by the fuel rack to spray into each cylinder. Filters should be both before and after the pump.

Are you seeing white smoke out the exhaust when your cranking? I'm guessing no. If you had fuel delivery, you'd see (and smell) the white fuel smoke. I would investigate a possible blockage in the tank or fuel line.

 

[nspec]

These are really simple engines, so I think you have a simple problem - just a matter of finding it. I've never had a detroit not start. Maybe start hard, but with fuel and air they always start. I've seen one run after it shot a rod through the side of the block....seen one start up and run with a liner in pieces just blowing oil out the stack....they just start up and run - unless they have no fuel.

Please ignore everyone telling you to crack lines and bleed returns, blah, blah, blah. Detroits are self priming. They have a positive displacement gear driven fuel pump. It is a low pressure fuel system with unit injectors that make their own pressure individually. There are pushrods, springs and tappetts to activate the plunger on each individual injector allowing the fuel charge determined by the fuel rack to spray into each cylinder.

There should be fuel filters both before and after the pump.

Are you seeing white smoke out the exhaust when you're cranking? I'm guessing no. If you had fuel delivery, you'd see (and smell) the white fuel smoke. I would investigate a possible blockage in the tank or fuel line. Your initial symptom of the engine slowly dying out describe a detroit fuel starvation problem precisely.

Did you crank it with the throttle open at all or just idle?

Where in RI are you?

 

[chrisdvorak]

Thanks nspec, before I changed the filters it did smoke white while cranking at startup. after I changed them no smoke, after a handful of cranks it will smoke blue a bit (oil) but no white so obviously not getting any fuel. I have tried it at all throttle positions with no difference. I'm not sure if its a blockage or just lost its prime to the main filter before the pump. I am in north kingstown RI

 

[nspec]

I'm in s.k. you want some help? Send me a p.m.

 

[Winmac]

Interesting you have a 164a, we have one too but with the international engine. Although we did have fuel issues with it too, the tank was rusting inside and blocking the suction.

If you want to save your starter I've used compressed air to pressurize the fuel tank the key is knowing what lines to open and sometimes you need to block the return fitting on the tank. Just holding a rag warped around a blow gun over the filler is enough pressure.

A Detroit is a different animal than most diesels, simple but misunderstood even by many mechanics.

 

[buickanddeere]

As previously stated. Disconnect the return line from the fuel tank and plug the port into the tank.
Apply a little pressure to the fuel tank until fuel is forced through the filters, low pressure gear pump , through the fuel gallery in the head and back to the line returning to the fuel tank.
Something was way wrong by the end of the 2nd 30 second cranking session when she didn't start.

 

[Jerry/MT]

These are really simple engines, so I think you have a simple problem - just a matter of finding it. I've never had a detroit not start. Maybe start hard, but with fuel and air they always start. I've seen one run after it shot a rod through the side of the block....seen one start up and run with a liner in pieces just blowing oil out the stack....they just start up and run - unless they have no fuel.

Please ignore everyone telling you to crack lines and bleed returns, blah, blah, blah. Detroits are self priming. They have a positive displacement gear driven fuel pump. It is a low pressure fuel system with unit injectors that make their own pressure individually. There are pushrods, springs and tappetts to activate the plunger on each individual injector allowing the fuel charge determined by the fuel rack to spray into each cylinder.

There should be fuel filters both before and after the pump.

Are you seeing white smoke out the exhaust when you're cranking? I'm guessing no. If you had fuel delivery, you'd see (and smell) the white fuel smoke. I would investigate a possible blockage in the tank or fuel line. Your initial symptom of the engine slowly dying out describe a detroit fuel starvation problem precisely.

Did you crank it with the throttle open at all or just idle?

Where in RI are you?

I agree with you, unit injectors and no injector pump. Rack changes volumetric output of injectors. The problem is most likely in fuel delivery especially since you are not seeing "white smoke' and smelling raw fuel. Could the rack not be working so you can't increase fuel delivery? Bad low pressure pump? clogged air filter?