Another battery question

[Richard]

Bird :

Cables tight & checked. Cleaned with that chemical cleaner, put back onto shiny post. Connection at starter is ok as I installed it all myself.. hmm.. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif (better go check)

Voltage check, had not thought of that, wonderful idea, ditto amp. The starter solenoid was replaced and honestly, the sound makes me think they are not even meshing, much less hitting. My gutcheck says it’s as you say, “not getting enough power to turn starter”, or more accurately, engage the solenoid.

As for calling for help… /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


JimI I have very easy access to solenoid/starter, hadn’t thought of jumper cable to bypass the batt cable

PineRidge another starter proponent

Hmm.. seems as though more are thinking of looking at the starter. I suppose when I got it back from shop, it could have had a bad / funky solenoid…

I was starting to think it might be getting a weakened ground with the battery ground wire.

Geez, I DO wish it were June about now… no fun tinkering on these things outside in the blustery wind or worse.

I think I’ll do 1 of 2 things, maybe both!! I’ll jumper around the starter cable to try to isolate starter verses cables…I might go ahead and change cables anyway, they are not terribly expensive and this way I’ll KNOW their status.

Thanks all

Richard

 

[Bird]

Richard, this reminds me of a problem I had many, many years ago with a 1970 Oldsmobile that would just click like that. Someone suggested that when it did that, if you just reach under the car and hit the starter with a hammer or something similar, it might engage. Sure enough it did, so decided to replace the starter, and did. Sure enough the problem was worn out teeth on the starter drive.

Now you couldn't ask for simpler starter to replace than a '70 Olds, but I remember it so well because the bolts were so tight and I pulled so hard on the wrench, while lying on my back, that I pulled something loose (ligaments?) in my right arm, so for a week or so afterwards, I had that arm in a sling. And that's when I went and bought my first impact wrench! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[PineRidge]

Impact wrench,,,,, what's an impact wrench ?? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[JD4610]

Actually this is a relatively easy problem to diagnose. Apologies to anyone who thinks this is no-brainer stuff, but reading some of the posts, there might be some confusion on how the starter system works.

It sounds like you have a newer style permanent-magnet starter with the solenoid mounted to the starter, correct? On the solenoid there are typically three connections, one large terminal with a cable from the battery, another large terminal with a wire leading into the starter motor, and a small terminal with a wire coming from the key/start switch. The solenoid has two purposes: One, to physically shift the starter gear so it meshes with the flywheel. Two, it closes an electrical switch inside to send the high current electricity to the motor. This happens simultaneously. We know the solenoid is getting key power and shifting the starter gear because that's the clicking noise we are hearing. The question is whether or not the electrical contacts are working.

So, with a helper, connect your voltmeter black lead to ground and the red lead to the large terminal on the solenoid that leads to the starter motor (not the one coming from the battery.) Now turn the key to 'start' while using all appropriate safety precautions. If the starter solenoid clicks and you have NO power at the terminal, the solenoid switch section isn't making contact and you need a new solenoid. If the solenoid clicks and you DO have power at the terminal, the starter motor itself is bad (most likely bad brushes or commutator.)

The only other thing you might try is checking to make sure the starter mounting bolts aren't corroded. The starters usually ground through these bolts and if they are corroded or loose they may not allow enough current to flow through them to run the starter.

If your starter isn't wired like this, then can you make a diagram or take a picture?

 

[Junkman]

Some solenoids can be disassembled and the copper disk can be reversed and they will work just like new..... When in doubt, I usually take a jumper wire to the main terminal of the solenoid and the other end on the battery positive terminal and try it. If it works, then I know that there is a bad connection at one end of the positive battery terminal or the solenoid end. Sometimes there is corrosion inside of the wire that is causing high resistance also. Don't be too quick to blame the solonoid...
I can't speak for diesel tractor connections, but what you have described is the connections for the GM type of starters.... the center wire comes from the battery, the larger of the other two comes from the ignition switch, and the third wire goes from the positive terminal of the ignition coil to the starter. This is done to supply 12 volts to the ignition coil for starting purposes and after the vehicle starts, then the resistance wire that cuts the 12 volts to 6 volts, takes over. Since a diesel doesn't have an ignition coil, I believe that there would be only two wires to the starter solonoid.....

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue">Some solenoids can be disassembled and the copper disk can be reversed and they will work just like new..... When in doubt, I usually take a jumper wire to the main terminal of the solenoid and the other end on the battery positive terminal and try it. If it works, then I know that there is a bad connection at one end of the positive battery terminal or the solenoid end. Sometimes there is corrosion inside of the wire that is causing high resistance also. Don't be too quick to blame the solonoid...
</font>

Go one step further and supply 12 volts to the coil of the solenoid 1st. if you still get the clicking follow Junkmans suggestion. If no click then its in the tractor wiring/switches don't blame the starter at that point.

 

[mainiak1]

I had a similar problem like this. Tuurned out to be a corroded battery cable. It wasn't corroded at the terminal. The corrosion was a couple of feet away on the negative cable under the vinyl covering. It was hidden until I pulled the cable off. The only thing I noticed was it was swelled up. I used a booster cable from the battery ground back to frame. You could try this on the pos. and neg. to eliminate the battery cable possibility. Just a thought.

Mainiak1

 

[RobertN]

Make sure you check all the connections... Check and clean where the selenoid wire attaches. Check for intermediate connectors under the dash ect. Make sure each connection is clean. Check you ground too. It may be clean at the post, but insure it is clean at the frame/chassis connection.

Someone else made a good point too. Sometimes the corrosion on a cable can be up under the jacket/insulation.

 

[Toolite]

The best way to pinpoint the problem is with a voltage drop test. It is described in here click here for link It should be done on both the positive and negative sides of the circuit.