International B414 Orifice Filter Jammed

coxsp · Sep 23, 2016

the Back Story
I received a B414 as an inheritance 3-4 years ago (zero maintenance in the last 20 years). When we first got it the hydraulics wouldn't lift at all. I changed the fluid, bled the system (a few times) and they began to work. It would lift only for about 30 mins then nothing. The same year I replaced the hydraulic piston O-ring, and assorted O-rings inside the hydraulic head, without too much improvement. The second year I changed the suction line filter and hydraulic fluid again, and depending on the weight of the implement used I could get up to two hours of use. No hydraulic maintenance last year, as I barely use it 40 hours a year, snow removal at my place in winter and bush hogging around the edges of my parents fields in summer.
A few weeks ago I read about someone with a similar issue, who replaced the orifice filter and fixed his tractor. I thought I would do the same, but I also purchased a new hydraulic pump just in case.
Now the Problem
I replaced the pump without too much issue. When I went to replace the orifice filter, what came out barely resembles the new part. The old filter seems to have separated. It's missing both ends, only the coarse screen and fine mesh came out, it would appear that the end with the O-ring is stuck inside the head.
Any ideas how to get it out? Using a mirror and flashlight we think we can see the brass end, but haven't been able to catch hold of it to pull it out.

CCWKen · Sep 23, 2016

If you lack pick tools, you might try using a large screw to thread into the piece and pull it out. Something like a deck screw or longer.

coxsp · Sep 24, 2016

CCWKen said:
If you lack pick tools, you might try using a large screw to thread into the piece and pull it out. Something like a deck screw or longer.

Thanks for the response. I have been trying the screw idea with no luck. I can get it to thread in, but the piece won't come loose, even using a hammer to catch the screw head and pry bar to pull. I'm afraid of causing irreparable damage.
I was wondering what the direction of flow was through the orifice filter, perhaps if plugged by the screw, it would pop out if I were to run the hydraulics. The last resort would be to lift off the reservoir and remove the hydraulic cylinder head, but I'm not sure if that would give me any better access.

CCWKen · Sep 24, 2016

It shouldn't be that hard to get out. It's only held in by a slip-fit O-ring. Are you sure there's actually a piece left in there?

We only have your eyes to rely on. :wave:

coxsp · Sep 24, 2016

CCWKen said:
It shouldn't be that hard to get out. It's only held in by a slip-fit O-ring. Are you sure there's actually a piece left in there?

At times I can see a hole at the bottom quite clearly, at others it looks like it's covered by a piece of the fine mesh from the old filter. My dad sees it too. The new filter doesn't slide all the way in, an extra 1/2 inch protrudes out the hole (roughly the same amount of space a broken off tip would take up), which would prevent the plug from threading all the way in.

We're going to get a set of picks, in the next few days and I'll try removing the o-ring from the new filter to see that will allow it to seat all the way. Perhaps it's the o-ring and a little lubrication may help.

Steave · Sep 24, 2016

Fluid is going to be moving into the hole where the orifice fits. Over the years it could have built up some crud holding the nipple in. Spray it well with penetrating oil let it sit overnight and try the screw idea again. When you're reinstalling use vaseline petroleum jelly for lub when you're dealing with new orings. It won't hurt the system or the orings or just use the same oil you'll be using. I don't recall what it suppose to look like inside the hole so sorry can't help you there.

coxsp · Oct 6, 2016

Update: Over several days, of poking and prying I was unable to get it out. I took it to the nearest dealer, who charged me for 2 hours labour at $85/hour to remove it. Money well spent had I known I'd lose almost a week and a half.
The mechanic said, judging by the look of it and the list of symptoms, that I may want to change the hydraulic pump too. I told him I already had (In case anyone's wondering, I bought my pump on ebay for $300 CDN, shipping and duty included, but I found one on American Amazon for $124 US + $10 US shipping, which would have been the cheaper way to go).
Once everything was together it took 2 minutes to bleed the fuel system (it used to take much longer, regular maintenance is a wonderful thing) and it started right up. The hydraulics were lifting before I knew what was happening. I usually have to crack a line several times to bleed the hydraulic system. It works!

Steave · Oct 6, 2016

Glad you got it going. Feels go to see something working after all the hard work. I don't suppose they revealed how they removed it or to why it was stuck. Just curious in case I run into one of the stubborn ones.

coxsp · Oct 6, 2016

The mechanic wasn't there when I picked it up. When I dropped it off, the mechanic indicated he'd pull the cylinder head, whether that would allow him better access from the front or enable it to be pushed out from behind, I don't know (my dad and I had the head out before; it wasn't something either one of us wanted to do again). When giving my contact info to the service manager, the manager said he would 'drill it out or whatever'. So really, only the mechanic knows.

I boasted too soon

. Three years ago we replaced the drain cock in the fuel line with a shut off valve when I couldn't find a replacement. I had the valve turned off for the repairs and ran it dry of fuel this morning. Spent all day trying to get it started, I've primed it several times, created some leaks, fixed the leaks and killed the battery. It could be the glow plugs, I pulled one of them and it seemed sketchy. Will try again tomorrow.

Steave · Oct 6, 2016

Back to the drawing board but at least you can turn the page on the orifice screen. Now you know for sure it won't run on air. Get the fuel through the filters and into the High pressure pump clear of any air before bleeding at the injectors. They all need to be like my D239 engine in my backhoe. When I shut it down and its going to be an extended period I cut the fuel off at the tank and let it run out. When you get ready to fire it up just pump the primer until you hear fuel flowing back to the tank (about 40 pumps) then it will fire right up without bleeding anything.