Ford 4610, Starter Stuck Engaged

[ETpilot]

I went to start the engine and saw smoke coming from starter area. Visual inspection did not reveal anything. So I tried starting again and could hear starter still engaged. The solenoid may have stuck in the on position. I cut off the fuel to the engine but starter kept engine turning over. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the action. So now I have to remove the starter. The problem is I have the FEL attached and in the way making removal a bit harder.

So my question is, will I do some damage if I start the engine in this condition in order to slide the FEL about 3 feet to give me better access? With a friend's help I can do this in a minute or less. My fear is will I do any damage to the teeth on the flywheel? Not sure on this course of action. After the rain passes I'm going to test just the motor to see if the bendix is still engaged. Anyone have any helpful ideas on this problem? Thanks.

 

[Texasmark]

The solenoid is the switch that applies power to the starter. It can't run or continue to run if the solenoid is open period. Searching the root cause, 3 things come into play:

1. Starter switch has metal filings internally which provide a path across normally open contacts (On not Start ignition position) closing the circuit, energizing the solenoid and keeping power applied to the starter....good possibility on high usage tractor (worn out switch) sitting out in the elements. Or the start power wire accidentally is shorted to a source of battery voltage.......very rare if possible.

2. Starter solenoid mechanically jams internally......very rare if at all!

3. Starter solenoid has had enough usage to the point where the surface area of the disc to post interface is pitted, thus reducing the surface area to carry the 100-200 amperes your starter uses to start. The longer you grind on the starter the more apt this is to be the case. Think about stick welding for example and what amperage you have your welder set on and think that you are welding steel, a good, not excellent conductor like copper.

The surface area that touches between the plates and posts fuses together and can't separate when the energizing solenoid is de energized so power remains on your starter.

 

[ovrszd]

I wouldn't try running the engine with it engaged. I'd suffer thru the removal process with FEL in the way. I'd also try to remove the solenoid from the starter and investigate that as a problem first.

I put a new starter on my 3910 few months ago. It "stuck on" the first time I used it, had to remove battery cable. Removed solenoid and cleaned the plunger area and it hasn't done it since. Not positive whether I fixed a problem or if it was merely coincidence.

Good luck with this and post the results.

 

[ETpilot]

Thanks for the replies. I've been giving this some more thought. I'm in agreement with ovrszd, leave it as is. The problem with looking at the solenoid is that the fuel filter/water separator is in the way. I'll have to take a closer look to see if that route is doable. This starter has a bolt buried deep between the engine and the starter. Have to use a long extension to reach it. Having the FEL arm in the way makes it a bit harder. I'll have to wait until a weather system passes thru and all gets dry again. Maybe sometime tomorrow. I have all the wires disconnected. Just 3 bolts and it is out. Yea yea.

Thanks again.

 

[ETpilot]

The surface area that touches between the plates and posts fuses together and can't separate when the energizing solenoid is de energized so power remains on your starter.

This is what I think may have happened. I'm going to look at the wiring diagram and see if there is another failure point for this system. Thanks.

 

[ovrszd]

The starter is a total PITA to remove/install. I replaced mine while I had the Injector Pump off so that gave me a bit more room.

My old starter required hitting the key several times to get it to engage, it would just click.

Big weather system, raining up here today too.

 

[RickB]

If the starter still motors, let it run with the fuel shut off so the tractor won't start. Use the hydraulics while cranking to raise the loader. Prop safely.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Start the tractor then disconnect the battery while it is running, I believe it is the same type of everything as my 3910 and it shouldn't need a battery to run.

Then remove loader, and shut it off where you want to work on it.

 

[ovrszd]

Start the tractor then disconnect the battery while it is running, I believe it is the same type of everything as my 3910 and it shouldn't need a battery to run.

Then remove loader, and shut it off where you want to work on it.

By golly I think you are right. My 3910 uses a manual fuel shutoff. Sure it would run with battery unhooked. Guess only other issue would be if the Bendix would disengage???

 

[ETpilot]

Well the weather system disintegrated North of me and the rest passed South of me. The afternoon turned out nice; cloudy, cool and it dried fast.

So a few tests. First I tested the starter motor. It ran good not hung up. Next I tested the solenoid, two hits with the test switch. First ok, second time it hung up. I then tested the motor again and it wanted to turn the engine. So decision made, take it off as is. That challenge was not too bad. I removed the battery n battery tray. Using a long extension, a swivel fitting, socket and a piece of coat hanger wire that buried bolt came out fairly easy. Tomorrow 2 bolts and it is out. A couple of pictures. First the access between the FEL top and bottom rails. The starter sits below and behind the fuel filter and separator which is just visible at bottom of picture. Second is the bolt visible below the metal rod. You can't get at the bolt from this direction. You have to come in from the front.

RickB I don't think your suggestion would work for me. The FEL lift cylinder would be in my way. Will check it when I get this running again. Thanks.

Birdhunter1 your suggestion is what I had in mind. However when it hung up again I decided to just work as is. Turns out it was not too bad. Thanks.