Backhoe Bushing Boondoggle - Advice needed!

[john_bud]

Hi!
I am redoing the bushings and pins in a Ford 723 backhoe. First off, I am slowly getting the bushings out with the old heat and hammer method, are there any tips on getting them out easier?

Next, and more importantly, there is damage to the bushing mounts on the bucket, dipper stick and boom. (I won"t even get into the pivot having washers welded on to hold the pin in! I really could slap that person around...) On the bucket, it must have been run without a bushing for a while as the holes are really bad wallered out. There is only a small segment in the center where the ID is about right for a new bushing. The outside edges in places are about 1/8 inch too big. I was thinking about putting in a new bushing and the filling the gaps with braze. Good idea, stupid idea? Got a better idea? I"m all ears!! I know, in 10-20 years, someone is going to be calling me an idiot.

On the dipper stick and boom the problem is the same, but the cause is different. I looks like someone used a cutting torch on the bushings and cut into the tube that holds the bushing. These are only bad in a few places and may even be ok to just slip in a new bushing.

Last, there is extra plate steel welded onto the boom and dipper stick. Quite a lot in fact, every side has been over plated with 3/8th. There are a couple issues with it. It really makes the tractor nose light. Should I just put up with it or cut it off and fix any hidden cracks/damage? Next, the cylinder bushings on the top of the boom (actuates the dipper stick) have been covered up by the plate. They are real loose and have to be replaced. I have a hole saw, but how to pilot it? The pin is 1.5", bushing is 3/16 wall.

Thanks!
jb

 

[Soundguy]

If the bushings are ferrous (sp?)... weld a bead around the circumference of the id.. let cool.. they should shrink and easilly knock out... if they are yellow metal.. beat them and fold them in.. then beat out.

Another way is to use a hacksaw blade to cut thru but stop when you hit base metal.. this makes a relief, and a way to get penetrating oil in.

Use canfdle wax.. heat joint then apply.. hot joint will suck wax in as it cools.. .. wax acts as a lube when the bushing is pounded out..


heat cool.. repititions.. I sometimes heat then quench with pb oil. then heat and let cool naturally, then start over... that usually breaks the rust free..

well that's all the tips I got..

Soundguy

 

[MossRoad]

More heat, a bigger hammer and a guy with arms like Popeye!

Last fall I attempted to beat a steering pin out of it's bushings and couldn't. I used my torch and a sledge hammer. Not a budge. I took it to a shop and the guy did the exact same thing as I did.... except he beat on it for 1/2 hour non stop, then took a break. The next day he said it took about 20 more minutes and it came out. 50 minutes of beating with a sledge hammer and heat to get it out. Oh, yeah, he was hard of hearing, too! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[5030]

John:

Your bucket and probably the dipperstick bushings can be bored on a vertical mill and new bushings pressed in. They can also be line bored right on the machine for a price.

Last year, I made new bushings for a friends Michigan 10 yard articulated loader bucket out of 660ca high shock bronze. The bushing diameter was over 11". He had AIS Machinery Service come out and line bore the bushing holes on the machine. I made the bronze inserts 0.005 oversize and then chilled them in dry ice, slipped them in and away he went. Of course he greases them like the previous owner didn't.

Your loader is much, much smaller so, any competent machine shop can bore your old bushings out and replace them with bearing bronze or steel, whatever your prefer.

Like Soundguy stated, if you want to remove a steel bushing, run a bead from one end to the other, let it cool and it will shrink and can be driven out easily. That works for dry linered diesels too.

Too bad you don't live close. I'd do it for you in the shop for a barley morsel or two. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bigbear]

john_bud I don't think a slap would get some of those fellers attention, they just seem to have a knack for messing things up. I have sometimes heated the bushing pretty good, so the heat goes into the surrounding metal and then put ice into the bushing to make it shrink, and they come out pretty quick. In reverse, it's called a press fit, heat the OD pc, cool or shrink the ID pc, when them stabalizes, there almost welded. Usually about .005 makes a tight fit.
As far as fixing the ID, I have brazed a few rings around the hole (half way through) and then come from the other side with a hole saw to true it up. When you use this method and the brazing is cool, make a pc of wood that will tap into the hole, so the hole saw can use this for a pilot hole, otherwise your hole will be egg shaped. It's takes a big mill to lay the boom and dipper stick on, in order to do it right, but this is a down and dirty way of saving one. If your making your own bushings, you can make them to fit the finished hole, along with the new pins. Make sure you through drill the pins so you can add grease fittings, usually the cause of the failure to start with. Hope this helps. BEAR
OH, you can make round ice cubes with dixie cups and add a stick to hang on to, wear gloves, they tend to spit steam back when they hit that hot metal. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[markct]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It's takes a big mill to lay the boom and dipper stick on, in order to do it right, )</font>

your lookin at it all wrong, dont take the boom to the machine tools, take the machine tools to the boom. portable line boring is a very common thing, it ranges in setups that cost thousands to the way i have done it a few times, which involves either my mag base drill and some pillow blocks and a shaft, or my 3/4 milwaukee drill and the same type setup

 

[Bigbear]

Sorry for not giving good advice, I just try and do the best I can with whats on hand. BEAR

 

[john_bud]

Guys,

Thanks for the replies. I did get the one stuck pin out. Had to heat the linkage up with the rosebud for about 30 minutes to get it red hot, pound reheat pound repeat. Tried pounding from one end - no go. Reheated and pounded from the other end. It started to go! Yippie! Then it stuck. The head of the pin had mushroomed a bit. Pounded it back and ground the head down. Started some paper towel on fire from the sparks. THAT was fun. Put out the smoldering embers and damped down the area. Reheated the linkage and pounded out the pin --> with the bushing still attached. That sucker is on there for good!

Did the weld a bead trick on a half dozen other bushings. It didn't make them "fall out", but it did seem to help. At least it gave a place for the old pin to sit so it was easier to pound them out.

The bushings are all hardened steel. I tried to cut them and wasted 2 of my reciprocating saw blades and didn't do much to the bearings. These blades normally can cut 3-4 feet of 1/2 inch plate and still have life left, so the bearings are hard.

Yeah, I am doing the swap my self, as there is no extra $ for a machine shop to do it the right way. Last trip to the shop for something simple was too spendy. I figure there are 40+ bushings total including the pivot and stabilizers, and most are in some way buggered up. No way that size job is being farmed out!

I checked with Ford NH. Most everything is NLS - no longer serviced. The price of one (1) pin for the boom cylinder was $298, but fortunately it was not available. Who are they kidding anyway?? I'll be making my own pins from 4140. Yeah, it's a lot more time, but my time is cheap this time of year.

5030 - You line bore out the wallered spots and I'll provide the pickled barley anytime!


Oh, I started grinding out some cracked areas to repair. Oddly, the cracks are in previously repaired spots. Hmmm grinding the cracks, I quickly found out why they cracked. Weld is NOT strong if you don't chip out the slag between passes! Man oh Man, now I really want to slap that dumb SOB!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

No worthwhile advice on my part. But when you get yours done, if you want another "project", I've got an old Case 580C that needs the same treatment. It had a hoe-ram on it for a couple years, and is loose as the proverbial goose. It has the "plated" dipper arm too. Most likely, that's covering up a broken arm. Butt welding something like that won't hold long enough to put the welder away, so usually, it gets plated.

When I was looking for a used hoe, I found a bunch of 'em that'd been in a rental fleet. Most had hydraulic lines to run a hoe ram. That's a GIANT red flag. Those things beat a good hoe into submission.

I'm also reasonably certain grease guns must be getting extinct.

 

[john_bud]

Farm,

Grease guns extinct? No way! I must have a dozen. Let's see... I have a few mini gun for the tractor tool box, etc, a couple with the cartridge verticle and 4-5 regular ones. And yes, they all have grease in them. Some have synthetic for winter use, some have marine for places that get washed down and one even has "junk" grease (it's for borrowing out...he he he). I even have one with a slide on tip for those grease fittings you can't get to head on.

I borrowed a buddies 9" grinder with metal cutting discs last night and just sliced off one of the "barnicles" slabbed on the dipper stick. It had to go as there was a crack running under and around it. Half of the time, it was throwing sparks the other half it was throwing hardened flux. {Initiate Flaming Rant Mode} Jeeze, if you're too F-ing stupid to chip the flux off, buy a big mig ! It's people like that, that give stick welding a bad name. Lord knows, I gave some bad names this morning to that unknown person. {End Flaming Rand Mode}

Whew, that felt good!


Oh, I'll let you know about your "project". Drop it by. Let's see, is the price 2 or 3 brews per bushing? Steak or lobster per pin? I'll have to look that up ...

jb