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  1. #1
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Default opinions needed on weld re-repair

    I just recieved my bracket set fro my ford 711/722 loader. i notice there is an older weld repair to the bracket ( upright support on bellhousing ). It's an older repair.. obviously has been painted over, installed and used, based on what the paint and wear marks look like.. so thus.. I'm sure the weld was 'good enough'./

    However.. i can still see a few flaws and cracks in a place or two, and I want to re-weld it.. That is.. v-cut the cracked areas and lay a few beads, and then regring. perhaps leave the beads proud on the areas that don't have clearance issues, in order to get a bit more metal on it.

    My question is this:

    I have much more exp with stick, and have a 235ac hobart stickmate.. I got a variety of rods.. mostly I use 6011 and 6013.. though I do have some 7014 and 7018 ac rods.

    I'm guessing 60xx is ok tensile str.. and i will probably go with 6011 for deep penetration.. and mid to high ont he amps. Metal is 1/2 and 3/8 inch in some palces.. so i want to get 100% penetration by going at it from both sides.

    Now.. i also have access to a ? miller 225a mig welder at work.. I have mig welded a little... I can draw a bead..e tc. though I feel -way- more confident in my stick welding skills.

    Anyone see a problem in stick welding it to re-repair it?

    Here is a photo of the bracket. Break occoured just above the bolt holes.. at a diagonal thru one hole.. bracket does not appear to have broken all the way.. just thru a hole.. etc. Old weld has obviously held.. but looks like the guy only had just enough rod to glue the big cracks together... and left the small ones..

    opinions?

    Soundguy
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    I personally would stay with the stick for penetration. That is just a preference of mine since I also can do better with a stick machine. If your comfortable, stay with it.
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  3. #3
    Super Member Dargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    A stick weld would be just fine if you're more comfortable with using that method. I've been working on a big project each evening in the barn and I can blow a hole completely through 3/8 with my MIG. So, I know I can get plenty of penetration with one pass. Also, much of the welding is vertical and some overhead. I've gotten the process and pattern down with my MM251 so I can't tell any difference in my horizontal welds and my vertical welds. I used to always use stick for my vertical welds because that was what I learned on, but I felt I needed to be certified in both. I passed AWS test with ease. However, since I'm designing and fabricating some things that may end up with a patent and later sale, I needed to get a CWFAB card. With some pull and help from a local company I have some connections with, I was able to get that. Here describes what's needed : http://www.aws.org/certification/docs/cert3797.pdf

    I don't think you need any of that, but in doing the required reading and tests, I've found that it helps to be competent in stick, wire feed, and TIG. I've forced myself to learn each as well as to learn to weld with either hand. Since you are not going for any of that, I'd simply suggest going what you are most comfortable using. I'd clean up your piece, bevel the edges a bit, and pour it to it. I generally run hot when I want to make sure I get good penetration. Look at the chart for the rod and metal you're using and then bump up your power a notch or two. Good luck!
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    FYI on MIG: If you mig the piece, it has to be very clean. As for penetration, the MIG will do every bit as good as stick on a properly prepared piece.

  5. #5
    Elite Member AlanB's Avatar
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    Soundguy, I may be way off base, but looking at that picture I am thinking cast. If it is cast, and has been working, I would leave it be.

    If it is not cast, and you are more comfortable with Stick, I would certainly go stick, however, if you lay in multiple beads, I would insure I throroughly cleaned between passes (removed slag)

  6. #6
    Super Member 3RRL's Avatar
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    I'd weld it where it's most convenient and both ways will do the job adequately. Just not there on top of that coffee or end table. You already mentioned good weld prep so have at it with your Hobart and 6011 rod ...no reason to take it to the shop?
    Rob-
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    Clean it off good, grind in a good bevel and then pre-heat the piece with your AC torch to get it good and hot. Not red hot, but 4-500F. A thick piece like that can steal away a lot of the heat and you can get some cold welds because of it. It also seems to help keep them from warping.

    (But, check with Dargo --> he's a real welder. I took some tech school classes, but not enough to get a cert.)

  8. #8
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    Thanks fro the responses guys.. let me fill in a few blanks and then get more answers.

    Not cast.. it's a stamping.. as far as i can tell.. not sure what grade of metal.. but it is from the 50's.. welds look like stick welds.. I have no idea what rod might have been used...

    No matter what method I weld it with, all the paint's coming off via wire cut in the drillpress.

    As i said before.. i can hotglue with a mig.. but I just have so much less practice on it.. and I'd really rather not have this expensive and virtually impossible to find bracket, be more practice.. vs the stick welder.. in which I pretty much know what i can and can't do ( though i would not call myself a welder... ). Also.. if I wanted to use mig.. I'd have to go to work to do it. Not difficult.. just a bit more work than walking out in the garage.

    I know my 235a stick could blow thru it.. and i believe you mig guys when you say that you could blow thru it with a mig.. I guess coming at it from both sides.. penetration will be no problem.. no matter what I use.

    Yes.. i will v-cut each crack. And yes, I am carefull to completely chip and wire brush all the slag possible off befroe laying down subsequent beads.

    I have plenty of 1/8 rod, and 3 /32 and 5 /32, if so needed. I also was thinking about using the upper end o fthe rod recomendation for amps.

    Preheating.. I was wondering about that.. is it a consensus that this will help? I can surely get my torch out and rosebud it and warm the pice before putting the electricity to it.

    Now.. question. I will have room on each side of the bracket to weld reinforcement to the 'outside edge' of each bolt hole.. something to the tune of square stock.. or round stock, bent and contured to match the bracket, then welded in. Should i do this? or let it fly as is ( once repaired. ). The extra metal on the sides won't interfeer with anything.. and i don't care that it will be like. 1" wider than an oem bracket, as the loader frame hides 75% OF THE BRACKET ANYWAY, AND THE OTHER 25% IS ONLY VISIBLE IF YOU CRAM YOUR HEAD BETWEEN THE TRACTOR ENGINE AND THE LOADER FRAME.. i.e. IT'S ALL BUT OBSCURED. ( OOPS.. CAPSLOCK! )

    I could also weld metal to the backside of that pin, above the bolt holes.. and cover about 1/2 the area where the crack was. Opinions on this?

    thanks

    Soundguy

  9. #9
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    Provided it is not cast, and since you are grinding the cracks into a "V", which is proper, I would do a hot pass (root pass) with the 6011 and a top (filler pass) with the 7018AC. Leave yourself a little metal about 3/16" 1/8" thickness at the bottom of the "V" so you have something to weld with the hot pass. Kind of a "V" with a square bottom. If you are careful, you can get 100% penetration with a smooth backside, Clean slag well and do the top pass and try not to undercut the sides with the rod. You don't have to heat the part first, but it won't hurt.
    This is simular ( though there are differences so don't shoot me ) to how pipelines are welded together.

    Hope this helps some,

    PhilD
    Phil DeGruy

    BX2230, FEL, 60" MMM, BXpanded Forks, Hooks, WR Long FTB, Homemade weight box

  10. #10
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    Default Re: opinions needed on weld re-repair

    Something that no ones pointed out yet is to drill the crack. At the end of each crack drill a 1/8 hole all the way through. This will prevent the crack from going any further.
    While I'm more comfortable welding with the mig I prefer to use my stick on heavy stock- ie anything over 3/8. My mig is only a Hobart 135 handler while the stick is a Hobart 225 so there is some reasoning behind my concern. If I just want to use the mig I'll lay several beads in the V. I've never had it fail, well at least not yet, but I still prefer the stick on high strength parts.

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