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  1. #11
    Elite Member DieselPower's Avatar
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    Fairfield, PA
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    JD 3020, JD 4230, JD 7410, JD 2440, MF 750, NH LS170

    Default Re: Welding/Tractor=Question

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanB
    OK folks I will bite in here.

    If you want to protect an electrical component, you unplug that component. I am not buying into that if you disconnect the battery, your computer will be safe. Your battery will be safe, all other components are still "in the loop, for stray voltages.

    Welding wipes out electircal components by sending electricity through places that was not intended, or in amounts not intended. Good clean grounds, close to your work, with straight metal between the two points, will do more to prevent this then anything else in my opinion.

    Also, if you are Tigging with HF then there are all sorts of interesting things that have the potential to happen.
    I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

    Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.

  2. #12
    Silver Member
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    Jun 2006
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    109
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    S.E. Michigan
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    New Holland TC33DA

    Default Re: Welding/Tractor=Question

    Remove loader from tractor. Place ground clamp close to work area. Make sure there are no bearings or pivot points between the weld area and the ground clamp. Weld all you need.
    Greg in SE. Mich. TC33DA,SS,FEL,72"MMM,72"FB,
    72"RB,60"BB,5'RC,PHD

  3. #13
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Mar 2002
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    Central florida
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Welding/Tractor=Question

    I guess technically you could have induction voltages.. but again.. disconnection a componet out of loop is a sure bet in most cases.

    I like to lift the positive cable... leaving things grounded usually makes them happy. that's why you almost never see a 'switch' in a ground.. only in the 'hot'..

    When i welde dthe bucket in my loader on my old ford 850, I simply unscrewed the charge wire from the alt, pulled the 2 pin plug, and pulled the hot cable... Pretty much all i've ever done on my tractors. on the ones with a genny.. i just pull the 'hot' cable on the battery.. as on my ford 5000 when i welded up the op platform.

    As was said.. having a good clean ground, as close tot he welded area as possible is the first / best thing you can do... and if there are any doubts past that.. just pull a wire and then don't worry..


    Soundguy

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPower
    I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

    Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.

  4. #14
    Elite Member AlanB's Avatar
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    Jan 2004
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    Clarksville, TN, USA
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    NH 1925

    Default Re: Welding/Tractor=Question

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPower
    I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

    Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.

    You have opened the "loop" in the normal electrical sequence.

    As far as electronics 101, ESD etc will still fry out sensitive electronic components (like ECM's) sitting on a bench with no wires connected to anything.

    Or, if you want to take it a step further, take an ECM out and bolt a piece of metal to it. Now clamp your ground to the opposite side of the ECM, now strike an arc on the steel bar.

    By definition when welding you are not using the Normal sequence, the welding voltage is going through somewhere not intended. Those components are still VERY likely electrically connected to the piece you are welding, weather through mount bolts, or seperate ground straps etc. it is still on an potentially energized part.

    I am not saying that it is a BAD idea to disconnect the battery or whatever you feel is important, what I am saying is that just disconnecting a battery, will not garuantee that you will not Zap an electrical component.

    I would put too you that the guys doing the welding that took the time to disconnect the battery, also placed their ground clamp on a clean well prepped area near too where they were welding and followed good practice, They were aware of the possible consequences and did not have a problem.

    And added on edit, I should have wrote in my original post, that you should Remove (not unplug) the component if you are very concerned about it.

    Each level of doing something adds a level of protection, and each welder, repair person has to determine what level they are comfortable with.

    I myself generally just weld with a well placed ground when doing Stick or Mig, when the Plasma or the Tig come out, lots more precautions start to come into play as the HF used can wreak havoc on electrical components. I prefer to get the piece out to the point where I am not electrically tied to anything.
    Last edited by AlanB; 02-22-2007 at 01:05 PM.

  5. #15
    Elite Member
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    Jul 2003
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    Goffs Corner, KY
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    IH 2444

    Default Re: Welding/Tractor=Question

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPower
    I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

    Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.
    Umm Induction, / static, I was almost killed one time splicing oopenended telephone cable that picked up inductive voltage from the power line above it.

    Better to remove the positive cable and connect it to ground.
    Everything at the same potential = no inductive/static buildup.

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