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  1. #1
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    99
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Tractor
    PT 422 Mod to kawi 29HP FD791

    Default 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Well it has been a while since i have posted here. While moving some dirt a couple days ago the engine siezed on my 422 (robin EH650DC0203 22hp)

    The unit has about 450 hours on it, is about 2 years old and yes it had a good oil level and good quality oil in it.

    A gentleman I know has a 418 which is a few year older and his robin engine did the exact same thing at 500 hours.

    We discussed what happened on both and they both died in the same way. At first there was a screaming noise for about 2 seconds and then the engine siezed with a loud clunck.

    My colleague noted that upon dissassembly he found that a piston rod galled on the crank shaft which was egged shaped. It is believed that the oil was not getting to this surface in order to lubricate it becuase his engine also had good oil level in it.

    I am not rebuilding mine or disassembling it as it cost just as much to rebuild it as a new engine costs. I didn't know that Bic had gotten into the engine business.

    Just thought i would let you in on another model 422 power trac tractor horror story. I am very dissapointed with my experiece with this piece of machinery. The people at power-trac are very helpful but that is not the point. I believe that the quality of these machines is very poor indeed and that cost cutting will be the downfall of what could be a very robust piece of machinery.

    I may put either a Kohler Command 25 HP model CH730-0038 or a Honda GX670TAF 24 HP engine in it when i finally decide if I should continue to pour money into this tractor. The Kohler is supposed to be able to be installed with a slight coupler modification ( it has to be bored out about .010" per PT) or p/n M15063x11 can be purchased from PT for $20.96 / Also required is the purchase of a $192.50 adapter plate which PT calls a Engine stand p/n M1344


    Does anyone have any information related to installing the Honda Engine? PT informed me that someone did it with success but did not have any details.

    Thanks,

    Steve

  2. #2
    Platinum Member tmarks11's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    822
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Tractor
    Power Trac 422 (2005)

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    I understand your disappointment, with your steering cylinder attachment breaking at 100 hours and now the engine seizing at 500 hours (anything else that I missed?).

    I wonder if the engine problem can be pointed to a design flaw by PT, or an issue with engine quality construction. By all reports, Robin is just as good an engine as Kohler or Honda, so I am surprised at the short life. My concern is that the engine seems to run very hot in the PT because of the muffler design/locaton, and the reduced cooling possible due to the enclosed installation. Maybe this contributed to the early death of your engine?
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Tim
    2005 PT-422
    4n1, LMB, minihoe, 48" mower, brush hog, Land Pride aerator, Herd spreader, auger, towing, forks, box blade, plow, box blade, tiller, trencher
    PT422 (6/23/05) photo page

  3. #3
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    213
    Location
    New England

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_in_CT
    I My concern is that the engine seems to run very hot in the PT because of the muffler design/locaton, and the reduced cooling possible due to the enclosed installation. Maybe this contributed to the early death of your engine?

    Steve,
    Sorry to hear about the problems you have had with your 422. Tim brought up a good point about the engine compartment enclosed muffler,90 degree angle sq. tube 2 into 1 exhaust manifold. Both these factors contribute to increased engine temperatures, fuel line temperatures, backfiring
    on shut down, etc. etc. I'm sure you have seen these pictures before from a few of my past posts, but here they are again. The modification did reduce my engine compartment heat and backfiring.

    PT-180 DUAL EXHAUST CONVERSION
    Last edited by Rivco; 09-09-2007 at 12:25 PM.

  4. #4
    Elite Member BobRip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    4,363
    Location
    Powhatan Va.
    Tractor
    2000 Power Trac 422

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Sorry about your problem. A real sinking feeling with that early a failure.
    Don't these engines have a 2 year warranty? Is it less than 2 years old or more? Even if it's more than 2 years I would talk to Robin about warranty. You might get something out of them. Perhaps a discount on a new engine. Maybe even a new engine.
    Bob Rip
    Tell me and I will hear.
    Show me and I will see.
    Let me do and I will learn.
    Let me fail and I will understand.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Barryh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,367
    Location
    Harpers Ferry WV - Mountains of Shannondale
    Tractor
    Former owner of a P T -180 / Kubota BX-1500 .. A Craftsman Yard Tractor / John Deere 140 H-1 / Cub Cadet 108. And now ( Little Red ) a Power Trac 1425

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Quote Originally Posted by scarg
    Well it has been a while since i have posted here. While moving some dirt a couple days ago the engine siezed on my 422 (robin EH650DC0203 22hp)

    The unit has about 450 hours on it, is about 2 years old and yes it had a good oil level and good quality oil in it.

    A gentleman I know has a 418 which is a few year older and his robin engine did the exact same thing at 500 hours.

    We discussed what happened on both and they both died in the same way. At first there was a screaming noise for about 2 seconds and then the engine siezed with a loud clunck.

    My colleague noted that upon dissassembly he found that a piston rod galled on the crank shaft which was egged shaped. It is believed that the oil was not getting to this surface in order to lubricate it becuase his engine also had good oil level in it.

    I am not rebuilding mine or disassembling it as it cost just as much to rebuild it as a new engine costs. I didn't know that Bic had gotten into the engine business.

    Just thought i would let you in on another model 422 power trac tractor horror story. I am very dissapointed with my experiece with this piece of machinery. The people at power-trac are very helpful but that is not the point. I believe that the quality of these machines is very poor indeed and that cost cutting will be the downfall of what could be a very robust piece of machinery.

    I may put either a Kohler Command 25 HP model CH730-0038 or a Honda GX670TAF 24 HP engine in it when i finally decide if I should continue to pour money into this tractor. The Kohler is supposed to be able to be installed with a slight coupler modification ( it has to be bored out about .010" per PT) or p/n M15063x11 can be purchased from PT for $20.96 / Also required is the purchase of a $192.50 adapter plate which PT calls a Engine stand p/n M1344


    Does anyone have any information related to installing the Honda Engine? PT informed me that someone did it with success but did not have any details.

    Thanks,

    Steve
    Very sorry to hear about your engine. BIG bummer... I am curious.... did you notice any vibrations from your engine under normal operations?
    Barry
    __________________________________________________ _____

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Barryh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,367
    Location
    Harpers Ferry WV - Mountains of Shannondale
    Tractor
    Former owner of a P T -180 / Kubota BX-1500 .. A Craftsman Yard Tractor / John Deere 140 H-1 / Cub Cadet 108. And now ( Little Red ) a Power Trac 1425

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivco
    Steve,
    Sorry to hear about the problems you have had with your 422. Tim brought up a good point about the engine compartment enclosed muffler,90 degree angle sq. tube 2 into 1 exhaust manifold. Both these factors contribute to increased engine temperatures, fuel line temperatures, backfiring
    on shut down, etc. etc. I'm sure you have seen these pictures before from a few of my past posts, but here they are again. The modification did reduce my engine compartment heat and backfiring.

    PT-180 DUAL EXHAUST CONVERSION
    Richard, you never did say or I missed it. How did that last set of mufflers hold up for you ??
    Barry
    __________________________________________________ _____

  7. #7
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    213
    Location
    New England

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Barry ,
    The final muffler setup I built worked great. The 3" Super Trap tips I added to the glass packs decreased the noise level substantially. The biggest concern I had ever since I bought the 180 was the amount of heat retained in the engine compartment, especially where the 180's don't have the oil cooler or fan. I always had it in the back of my mind that one day I would toast the engine from brush mowing etc.

    I offered to put the OEM muffler back on for the new owner, but he reclined the offer and said the new configuration was a much better setup.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Barryh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,367
    Location
    Harpers Ferry WV - Mountains of Shannondale
    Tractor
    Former owner of a P T -180 / Kubota BX-1500 .. A Craftsman Yard Tractor / John Deere 140 H-1 / Cub Cadet 108. And now ( Little Red ) a Power Trac 1425

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivco
    Barry ,
    The final muffler setup I built worked great. The 3" Super Trap tips I added to the glass packs decreased the noise level substantially. The biggest concern I had ever since I bought the 180 was the amount of heat retained in the engine compartment, especially where the 180's don't have the oil cooler or fan. I always had it in the back of my mind that one day I would toast the engine from brush mowing etc.

    I offered to put the OEM muffler back on for the new owner, but he reclined the offer and said the new configuration was a much better setup.
    I've been concerned myself for a while now. Sometimes when working out in the hot sun for long periods it gets so hot. The valve levers start to burn my fingers. So I shut it down and let it cool off. With the above topic, and these engines had the cooler setup. I going to get an extra fan and maybe follow your lead to reduce the heat by next spring. Will be interesting to see what you come up with for your new machine. ...
    Barry
    __________________________________________________ _____

  9. #9
    Platinum Member Phils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    776
    Location
    Cherokee, CA
    Tractor
    PT-422

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivco
    I offered to put the OEM muffler back on for the new owner, but he reclined the offer and said the new configuration was a much better setup.
    I wish you'd offer that mod as a kit. I'd want one!

    Phil

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Barryh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,367
    Location
    Harpers Ferry WV - Mountains of Shannondale
    Tractor
    Former owner of a P T -180 / Kubota BX-1500 .. A Craftsman Yard Tractor / John Deere 140 H-1 / Cub Cadet 108. And now ( Little Red ) a Power Trac 1425

    Default Re: 422 robin engine blew up on 8/28/07

    Quote Originally Posted by Phils
    I wish you'd offer that mod as a kit. I'd want one!

    Phil
    I second that...
    Barry
    __________________________________________________ _____

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