Power-Tracs are not cheaper in my opinion

[toy]

I don't see why people think Power Tracs are cheaper than regular tractors. When I was first considering the 425, my next choice was a Kubota BX series because of similar size, stability on hills, 4WD, etc? Comparing the 425 to the BX, and going by current prices, by the time you put a bucket and mower on both, it's about $13,500 for the BX versus $11,750 for the 425. Ignoring shipping and taxes, I will certainly admit that the $1750 difference is significant. However, for the difference, with the Kubota you get: a great diesel engine, a two speed drive system with real axles, ability to use many cheap 3 point attachments, a real warranty, an established and widely available dealer network, and much less depreciation if you need to sell. Given the efficiency of the diesel versus the gas PT, I'm sure you could make up the cost difference in fuel savings alone over the life of the tractor. Further, due to competition, many attachments (e.g., post hole diggers) can be had for much less than PT charges. So, I do not think that Power Tracs are cheaper than Kubotas when all things are considered.

To be clear, I did buy the 425 due to its better maneuverability, better capability as a loader, out front attachments, and quick attach feature. I just thought it would suit my needs better. However, I never thought it was cheaper.

The reason that I think that the pt 425 was cheaper was because before I bought my pt I stopped by a john deer place and checked on getting a john deer, the salesman showed me a used one that looked like new but he was asking more for just the tractor with no attachments than I paid for my 425 pt with the rock bucket with teeth, brush hog, grader blade, mini hoe, forks, an extra attachment plate, spare tire for the tractor and an upgrade to solid foam filled tires on the brush hog. The john deer salesman acted like it was a strain to talk to me or that he didn't believe I would really buy one so I figured that maybe their service department might be just as interested when it came time for service work so I went to pt and got the 425 pt. When I got my pt 425 the pt by itself was $8500 and that was with the high torque wheel motors, since then the price has went up so that might not be the case now.

 

[kmaz]

I just about had my mind made up on a bx when i stumbled upon the power trac forum...I never looked back!! I think as a whole there absolutely cheaper.
If all you need is a loader and a mower, their comparable in price. But my needs necesitated the mini hoe and the 4 n 1 along with the tiller, LMB,and the mower. now, i dont know how much it would cost to have a bx plumbed for a 4 n 1 bucket or how much the bucket itself would cost but id have to imagine its considerably more than $1,300. My thinking on the mini hoe (and this of course is very subjective) is that a full size back hoe for any of the sub cuts costs $6000. Though maybe not nearly as convenient id put the mini hoes capacity at half that of a back hoe, so that puts the perceived value of Pt's version at $3000 while only costing $1100. Maybe simplistic in thinking but the combination of the 4 n 1 and hoe sealed the deal for me and I couldnt be happier. I wont even talk about the quick attach....You truly have to use it to believe it.

Kris

 

[IslandTractor]

As a PT wannabe who ended up buying a CUT, I'll come into this thread to defend the CUT. In my case I had an order form for the PT 425 and half a dozen implements filled out when PT raised prices and I decided to look one more time at the comparable CUTs. I ended up with a Kioti CK20 TLB for just a little more money than I would have spent on the PT plus implements plus shipping. I then paid an additional roughly $800 for a grapple and a similar amount for a bush hog. So, I did spend a bit more money than I would have on the PT.

What did I get that was different from a PT? The FEL lifted 1100lbs vs 800lbs and lifted it several feet higher. FEL work might seem quicker with a PT but an FEL with HST on a CUT is a pretty efficient machine and can load trucks much more easily. The grapples available for CUTs are not just grapple buckets and are simply more versatile than the PT grapple bucket. I can have one implement on the front and another on the back which is much more efficient for some tasks than going back and forth with the PT to change implements (grapple on front of CUT and bush hog on the rear is a tremendously efficient brush clearing combo). The BH digs a hole six feet deep and about 5 feet across and I can swing it 180 degrees without my moving or needing to dance around like a mad beetle removing and depositing one small scoop at a time. The PT minihoe costs about 1/5 as much and does no more than 1/6 the dirt removal per hour I would imagine unless you are talking about trenching or digging holes for plants. I'll take the BH for stumps and big rocks that need outing. I don't need to sit next to a loud gas engine and I pay about half as much for fuel per hr of operation. Engine replacement is not an issue on a diesel CUT (though I appreciate that a new PT engine is only about $1500 or so and a day's work so that is really not a biggie). I can buy and sell used 3pt implements without bother from someone other than a TBN member. I have much more traction than a PT and can drag/pull much more as well as push bigger things. What I miss most of the PT qualities is the ability to see where I am mowing when driving forwards into brush. Not such an advantage for regular mowing though. I'd also love a PT minihoe for the small jobs that don't require the BH (which is often not attached).

Now, guys, before you leap at me as a nasty intruder from CUTville, let me state clearly that I'd love a PT (422/425) in my barn next to my CUT and I think many people who own CUTs would be better served by a PT. However, don't get carried away by this PT pep rally. PTs are not head and shoulders above CUTs in either value or performance. And, don't just compare the PT to the Kubota BX series. There are better value CUTs out there for the same or less money.

 

[SnowRidge]

Where the PT really shines is on wooded slopes, where its manouverability and stability is unbeatable, but I agree with IslandTractor, a CUT is cheaper than a PT.

When a potential buyer whose needs could be met either by a PT or a CUT takes a hard look at the numbers, he will find the CUT to be the less expensive option, which was the OP's point when he started this thread. Comparing PTs to exotic articulated machines and rants regarding do-it-yourself maintenance and redesigning mower decks are just diversions from that point.

 

[SpringHollow]

I bought my PT used so the arguments are a little different. Used PTs are a great buy because they seem to depreciate quicker than a name brand CUT (not a plus for PT's when buying new if you think you might be selling it in a few years). I was able to buy a PT 1850 (60 HP diesel) with stump grinder, grapple bucket, and 92" bush hog for the price of an older, more heavily used Ford 4WD 1520 (which has 2 1/2 times less HP!) with a FEL which just sold near me. The biggest negative to used PTs is that they do not come around very often. PT attachments are cheaper in most instances and you can adapt most 3 pt implements to them as well.

However, as I have said before, each has their place. I would not pick a PT as my only tractor if I did conventional farming or if I did not know which end of a wrench to use. I would not pick a CUT to go sideways on a 45 degree hill. People need to decide which type of tractor best meets their needs and price is only one of the considerations.

Ken

 

[KentT]

When a potential buyer whose needs could be met either by a PT or a CUT takes a hard look at the numbers, he will find the CUT to be the less expensive option, which was the OP's point when he started this thread. Comparing PTs to exotic articulated machines and rants regarding do-it-yourself maintenance and redesigning mower decks are just diversions from that point.

What's exotic about an Avante, or Steiner?

I repeat, they have far more in common with a PT than a Kubota BX or Montana CUT do...

A PT has more in common with a skidsteer, IMO, than it does to a conventional CUT/SCUT... front mount, hydraulically driven attachments located on long lift arms, for example.

And as far as price goes, show me a new 22 HP SCUT that can be had, with 800lb-rated FEL and finish mower for slightly under $10,000 or a 25HP one for slightly under $12,000. If you can find one, I don't think it would be orange nor would its name begin with "K", regardless of the shade of orange...

Here's the best prices I'm aware of on Kubotas, for example:

Carver Kubota Menu Page

You'd still have to pay shipping on those, just as you do on a PT, but Carver's prices are so much lower than my local dealer, that I'd still save money -- I got quotes for BXes from both, before I found my used PT, in addition to a Kioti CK-20 (both gear and HST).

BTW, I'm talking purely price here, the subject of this thread, not durability or diesel vs gas, for example...

 

[KentT]

I bought my PT used so the arguments are a little different. Used PTs are a great buy because they seem to depreciate quicker than a name brand CUT (not a plus for PT's when buying new if you think you might be selling it in a few years). Ken

Ken, IMO, this is absolutely on the mark. I bought the PT-425 package, below, with 250 hours on it (the meter rolled over 250 while I was unloading it at my house) for $6,000. If it were a traditional SCUT, it would've been around $10,000, perhaps more, for the same package with that low of hours...

I then took the money saved (approximately $4,000) and bought a new minihoe, grapple bucket, LM bucket and spare attachment plate -- and still have change left over...

I'm happy with my decision and my tractor. Combine that with the fact that if I'd be limited to driving a SCUT straight up and down these slopes, instead of around the contours... been there, tried that, and it didn't work well at all...
.

 

[SnowRidge]

Ken, IMO, this is absolutely on the mark. I bought the PT-425 package, below, with 250 hours on it (the meter rolled over 250 while I was unloading it at my house) for $6,000. If it were a traditional SCUT, it would've been around $10,000, perhaps more, for the same package with that low of hours...

I don't understand the rapid depreciation on PTs. They rarely come on the market, yet when they do, they don't seem to fetch much.

Do you know what the current retail for all that was when you bought it? I am thinking around $13K. Less than 50% of retail after only 250 hours is kind of disturbing. If the original buyer paid shipping, it would have been even worse.

Assuming $13K is correct, that works out to $28 an hour, not including fuel, service, or repair costs. Debt service and insurance, if either applied, would add even more.

 

[KentT]

I don't understand the rapid depreciation on PTs. They rarely come on the market, yet when they do, they don't seem to fetch much.

Do you know what the current retail for all that was when you bought it? I am thinking around $13K. Less than 50% of retail after only 250 hours is kind of disturbing. If the original buyer paid shipping, it would have been even worse.

Assuming $13K is correct, that works out to $28 an hour, not including fuel, service, or repair costs. Debt service and insurance, if either applied, would add even more.

I don't know the original retail, especially since that's a Howse rake he modified. I think the PT 425 was $8500 when he bought it (December 2000), compared to $10,000 today...

I called PT and they estimated the value of this used package (what they'd ask for it) at around $7200 when PTRich put it on the market. So, I paid him his full asking price of $6000. He said was going to put it in his local paper for $7000 to give himself negotiating room, but since I'd connected with him here, and had a check in hand, we didn't quibble when he offered it to me for $6K...

 

[sandman2234]

Just a note to mention that Steiner did make a FEL for their larger lawnmowers, but since they are getting out of that style of tractor, they are just going to be that much harder to find. I have never seen one, just pictures, but it is a lot more than just the scoop that most people buy to move mulch around their flower beds.
David from jax


FEL specs for the Steiner
Lift height: 73"
Maximum lift capacity: 365 lbs.
Recommended maximum transport lift capacity: 200 lbs.
Reach
raised 30"
lowered 27"
Bucket volume: 6 cu. ft. (approx.)
Bucket width: 48"
Weight: 702 lbs.