An Expensive Lesson

[Bob999]

I was mowing with my 1845 and the engine quit. It would crank but not start. I checked the fuel supply, fuel strainer, and replaced the fuel filter. It would still not start. I checked for power for the fuel shutoff solenoid (pin 7) and it had 12 volts when the ignition switch was on and had no voltage with the switch off.

I call Terry. He asked if I heard the click when the ignition switch was turned on. I did not. He confirmed that I had power at pin 7. He said that apparently the solenoid had failed and I would need to replace it and directed me to Duetz for the parts. He did add that there is usually a detectable burnt smell when the solenoid fails. I have a poor sense of smell but did not detect any burnt smell.

I ordered the parts and because of some minor changes the necessary conversion pigtail. Total, including UPS and tax was $269.

I installed the replacement part and it would still not start (still no click). I confirmed with Terry that I had done the replacement correctly and then started further electrical trouble shooting.

The problem turned out to be a bad ground. The solenoid does not ground directly to the engine. Rather it is a two wire connection and grounds back through the connection box located on the right side of the engine. When I went to check the connection box on the right side of the engine I found that the tabs used to mount it had broken (from metal fatigue presumably induced by engine vibration) and the box was hanging loose. (On my tractor the connection box was mounted to a bracket attached to the engine. Terry tells me that subsequently PT has changed the design and now mounts the box on the chassis because of problems caused by engine vibration.) Once I remounted the connection box (reestablishing the ground) the engine started and ran normally.

I now have a spare fuel shutoff solenoid!

 

[woodlandfarms]

I have something similar, a magnetic PTO actuator valve that was blocked (but I thought it was the magnet). I have yet to understand the rational PT has for the wiring system they have.

So, how did you remount your box? I am OK so far, but I know it is a weak link (did not know the box was but knew the wiring their is suspect and in an abusive area).

 

[Bob999]

So, how did you remount your box?

For the immediate fix I used large washers and used the OEM mounting bracket. My intention is to remount to the chassis if I can.

 

[ponytug]

Carl- Rationale? ROTFLOL!
I always thought the 'rationale' was along the lines of "Hey, did you see that there is a special on aisle three for 9 wire elevator cable?"...
"Go for it, dude!"

In all seriousness, it might be an OK system, if it weren't subjected to dirt and vibration, but there are multiple routes to ground, distant wire routing(my favorite is the starter solenoid circuit), and in my non-expert opinion, many undersized wires that cause voltage drops.

I have had wires vibrate loose from the main bus behind the dash, but they may have been loose from the time of manufacture.

Bob, Sorry to hear about the bad ground issue. I added extra ground wires to the engine block, to the front dash and the tub to try to avoid grounding issues. I guess I will now add another back to the electrical box.

I'll keep you in mind if I ever need a new fuel solenoid.

All the best,

Peter

I have something similar, a magnetic PTO actuator valve that was blocked (but I thought it was the magnet). I have yet to understand the rational PT has for the wiring system they have.

So, how did you remount your box? I am OK so far, but I know it is a weak link (did not know the box was but knew the wiring their is suspect and in an abusive area).

 

[woodlandfarms]

I may have dibs on it. I have this weird problem that sometimes my PT won't restart on steep slopes unless it rests (goes cold). Yes, Only On slopes, only when the engine is hot, and generally facing downhill...

Terry says it may be a bad fuel pump.....

And is that what the wire bundle is? Elevator wire? I never have seen something like that before and didn't think PT was so out of the box to make their own custom cables...

 

[ponytug]

Blue light special on aisle 3! Elevator cable on sale!!

As good as it sounds, I have to admit that I haven't cross-checked the cable listings to see where the cable came from or what it is normally used for. I can tell you that it is designed as a power cord for a non-transport use. I don't think it is a custom cable, not because it would expensive, but by design. If it were a custom cable, would the main power be carried in two separate wires?

On your hot restart problem:

• Have you tried "jump" starting it with a second battery?
  
  (i.e. is it a hot battery, low voltage issue?)​
• Do you hear the fuel solenoid clicking?
• If not, does manually powering the solenoid help?
• Does it crank?
• If it doesn't crank, have you tried jumping the starter solenoid?

All the best,

Peter

 

[Bob999]

As good as it sounds, I have to admit that I haven't cross-checked the cable listings to see where the cable came from or what it is normally used for. I can tell you that it is designed as a power cord for a non-transport use. I don't think it is a custom cable, not because it would expensive, but by design. If it were a custom cable, would the main power be carried in two separate wires?

I think that the 14 wire cord between the front and back is likely a custom cable. Here is a link to one source of supply:
Multi/Cable Corporation: A leading manufacturer of electrical and electronic wire and cable.

 

[Sedgewood]

I think that the 14 wire cord between the front and back is likely a custom cable. Here is a link to one source of supply:
Multi/Cable Corporation: A leading manufacturer of electrical and electronic wire and cable.

When I rebuilt after the fire in my 1845 I recorded the specs written on the cable:

Carol Super Vu-Tron 14/12 90 deg C UL Water Resistant SOW
CSA (-40 deg C) FT-2 P-7K-123033 MSHA 600V

Knowing Power-Trac, YCMV (Your Cable May Vary

Sedgewood

 

[Bob999]

When I rebuilt after the fire in my 1845 I recorded the specs written on the cable:

Carol Super Vu-Tron 14/12 90 deg C UL Water Resistant SOW
CSA (-40 deg C) FT-2 P-7K-123033 MSHA 600V

Knowing Power-Trac, YCMV (Your Cable May Vary

Sedgewood

Here is a link to the class of cable. Note that what appear to be stock items only go to 5 conductors. Based on the searches I have done I think a 14 conductor cable is custom.
http://www.generalcable.com/NR/rdonlyres/AEF4A90C-CA7C-494D-9A8E-54EB2B9E9A28/0/CAR0027R0904.pdf

 

[ponytug]

#9214 is a 14 conductor 12ga cable... For those of you wanting to upgrade, there is a 16 conductor, 10ga version.

OK I'm wrong it's not elevator cable, it is mining cable. (Guess I should have guessed that one given PT's background...)

Good detective work! (I was just joking about the elevator cable...)

All the best,

Peter

Here is a link to the class of cable. Note that what appear to be stock items only go to 5 conductors. Based on the searches I have done I think a 14 conductor cable is custom.
http://www.generalcable.com/NR/rdonlyres/AEF4A90C-CA7C-494D-9A8E-54EB2B9E9A28/0/CAR0027R0904.pdf