Buying Advice Hydraulic lift arm advice

[woodlandfarms]

I am going to have to change out my Rollover Cylinder this spring. I think I have it nailed what I am going to do.

But I wondered if JJ and others might have some advice for the lift cylinders. They are anemic on the 1850, but I know there is a sliding scale for increased lift = increased damage.

But for a little more oomph, do you think something like this would work, be too much or why am I spending my money on this....


https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2232122709365263&item=9-5250-14&catname=hydraulic

The cylinders the PT has is 1" rod with 1 - 3/4" bore.

 

[J_J]

Carl,

You would have to adapt the tube ends to match your cyl mounts with the one you selected. The cylinder force is not going to limit you, it is strictly the lift weight ratio to the weight of the PT. You can change the front cyl all you want, and if you meet the pucker factor, that is your limit. That can be checked with the barrels of water, or pallet of cement block. If you should happen to add weight to the back of the PT, then you can increase the lift weight some what, but you have to take into account the weight on the hyd wheel motors.

At 3000 psi, each cyl,

A 90 degree push angle, and cyl of 1.75 in x 1 in = 7216 lbs push x two cyl .

A 45 degree push angle------------------------ = 5102 lbs ---------------

So, with 10,204 lbs, you have all the push force you need, it is the lever effect of the PT against the weight you want to lift.

With one tilt cyl, you have 7,216 lbs to use with your bucket, and if connected right, you have that much force to tilt/curl/rotate, etc. I don't know if the bucket you are using is a PT bucket, but it is not set up for optimum force, but for tilt angle. The closer the lift tabs on the bucket, the less force you have, but it will be fast in roll over speed. Similar to the diagram I posted a while back. A graphics artist could draw and show the force and angle with motion, etc, and that would explain it better.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So, JJ. I looked up the chart at Burden. These new cylinders would add 2000lb of lift per cylinder (7216 to 9425). I am not going for broke, I am afraid if I beefed it any bigger than this 1/4" upgrade I would snap the lift arms.

But what you are saying is that due to the design of the pick points (the lift points) that I am pretty limited as to any increase in lift by changing out these cylinders?

 

[J_J]

That is correct, it is not a force limitation, but a weight limitation, but if your current cyl's are not up to specs, then new cyl will improve your lift. and bring you back up to specs. You are still limited by the pucker factor. Yes, the geometry will dictate the maximum lift. Your maximum lift force is where the cylinder is connected to the lift arm, and the further you go out, the force is attenuated or decreased. If you were to put a 12 ft pole on the QA, you could only lift a couple of hundred lbs. You probably have seen pictures of cranes that toppled over, and it was most likely due to the geometry of the base to the lifting point.

If you were to beef up or acquire some new wheel motors with a larger payload, and added some more weight on the back, then larger cyl would help.

My lift arms are 3/4 in, but from the pictures of the newer 1445's and 1460's, they look to be 1 in thick.

The 1460 can lift 2400 lbs, but if you look at the geometry, it is different than mine and probably yours. The lift arms are connected behind the wheel motors, and that gives some advantage, and the cyl's are probably larger.

 

[SpringHollow]

I have not rebuilt my lift cylinders so that may be the problem, but right now, if i have the bucket curled all of the way up, i can not lift the heaviest loads. But if i drop the front of the bucket (uncurl a little), then it lifts that same load. Some strange geometric effects or i have bad cylinders.

Ken

 

[Bob999]

I have not rebuilt my lift cylinders so that may be the problem, but right now, if i have the bucket curled all of the way up, i can not lift the heaviest loads. But if i drop the front of the bucket (uncurl a little), then it lifts that same load. Some strange geometric effects or i have bad cylinders.

Ken

If the bucket is curled to the maximum up position I think that loads the hydraulic circuit and limits the hydraulic power available for the lift cylinders. I think when the curl is relaxed then full power is available for lift.

 

[SpringHollow]

Hi Bob,

That is without the curl being activated by the lever. I would think no fluid is being used by the curl circuit with the lever "closed" but i could be wrong.

Ken

 

[J_J]

Hi Bob,

That is without the curl being activated by the lever. I would think no fluid is being used by the curl circuit with the lever "closed" but i could be wrong.

Ken

You are right about the cylinder being locked when the lever is in neutral. The curl cyl should not have anything to do with the ability of the lift cyl to lift the standard load. Matter of fact, if you curl full up, you are actually bringing the load closer back to the pivot point, however slightly.

 

[J_J]

If the bucket is curled to the maximum up position I think that loads the hydraulic circuit and limits the hydraulic power available for the lift cylinders. I think when the curl is relaxed then full power is available for lift.

The bucket is never relaxed, but when the curl is full down, there is no weight pulling on the cylinder shaft. The flow through the spools are blocked in the neutral position. If they were leaking, you would know it.