Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga

   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga #1  

woodlandfarms

Super Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
6,112
Location
Los Angeles / SW Washington
Tractor
PowerTrac 1850, Kubota RTV x900
So tomorrow I am going to adapt a 1.5" cylinder to my PT. It is a huge honker compared to my original. I got it off of Ebay new for $65. It looks identical to a Chief I was looking at.

The downside is that the body of the cylinder is 2" longer than the PT. I am going to hope that extending the tilt dump rod will accomodate this issue, but it could be problematic.

Also I have to cut off the ends of this cylinder and weld on ones from my PT or other source.

If this fails, I will have a custom cylinder made.

Will snap pix of tomorrows fiasco.
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga #2  
If you are going to upsize this, it seems to me that you need some kind of protection link that will break instead of something expensive. In hydraulics this is a relief valve. Can you put a relief valve between the lines going to the cylinder. Have it low enough so that it trips at about the same force as the old cylinder. I am not looking forward to the arms breaking or the rollover link breaking. Better protection might be what you need instead of stronger piston.

Oh, if you are not going to do the above, what are your plans to beef up everything else in the area?

Just trying to get you thinking and maybe here some others about what they think. I am out of my area here. J_J where are you?
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga
  • Thread Starter
#3  
I am totally concerned about this. But... The cylinder does not extend beyond the distance that the device can operate. The only thing will be it attempting to tilt more weight than it was originally designed for.

The jury is out on all of this, my fall backsolution is to have a new cylinder made so this is just a test with a cheap cylinder.

So far I have cut off the bottom rod connect and now am working on cutting the bar.
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga #4  
I actually bent my quick attach plate while pushing it against a tree with nothing on it. Just one thing that could happen. Good luck on this.
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga
  • Thread Starter
#5  
So here is the end of the day wrap up....

It works, Kinda.....

Ultimately I am going to have a new rod made for the old cylinder, there were just too many issues at the completion of this mod that, while it works, it does not work better.

As suggested, the cylinder is much slower. Not a huge issue, but not a lot of fun.

But as a bigger issue, the geometry of the arm makes an alternate cylinder problematic. When I was searching for cylinders I came up with the resolution that any alternate manufacturers of cylinders were 2" longer in the cylinder than PT. What this does is make it hard to dump. And there is no cure for that. When tilting up, the rod tends to overdrive the linkeage, and make the bucket tilt quite far back. It also puts the rollover bar in distress.

I am going to use it for a while, until the wife lands a gig and then I will have custom rods made. The initial one will be quite expensive ($250) but I think the additionals will be cheaper. I will reuse the old cylinder but install a new gland and rod in a larger dimension.\

Carl
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga #6  
Carl, It was a while ago that I posted about the geometry on the front of your machine. It didn't look right. I believe you need to redo the link from the roll over assembly to the QA, and perhaps that will require a different cyl in terms of total length, and rod extension.

When I had to replace the roll over assembly on my 1445, they didn't have one exactly like mine as it is an early 90's model. Due to the shape of it, it did change the geometry, and I could not get a full 180 dump angle. I made a connecting link with several holes that will allow me to modify the dump angle geometry.

With the force of the cyl close to the pivot point on the bucket, you will get the most angle, and faster dump. With the connecting points like this, the bucket has a greater mechanical advantage to develop enough force to push back on the connecting link, and will cause the weakest part to fail. It could be the link one day, and another day, it could be the cyl, such as a bent rod, or develop enough pressure to burst a hose or cyl seals.

A larger cyl with a larger rod, may be stronger, but the connecting link will bend or cause the connecting rod ends to fail as they have in the past. I believe you had them welded again.

You can add relief valves across a cylinder and set them accordingly to protect the cyl, and hose.
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga #7  

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   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Hey JJ...

I see what you are seeing ( on the stock setup the angle from the QA Plate is too severe) but I am not sure what the cure is.

I beleive in the photo it is a factory setup. This is a newer 1850. What could I change to reduce the issues you are seeing?

As I said, this is a temporary fix. If the wife goes to work next week I am getting some custom cylinders made.
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga #9  
Woodlandfarms in jj picture of the tractor the cylinder is attached to the longest side of the upright part of the rollover that is one thing that I was trying to say is that if the cylinder is hooked to the shortest side then the cylinder rod would hit the rollover pin before it reached the end of it's stroke and that might be one of the sources of the rod bending. I thought that maybe someone had replaced the rollover pin and put it in with the upright part in the picture upside down. In either case if the max of the rollover is being reached before the full extension of the cylinder it would cause you a problem I believe.
 
   / Tilt Dump Cylinder Saga #10  
If you use the cyl that you have now, the easiest change point, is the length of the solid bar link. I think you need a link bar with say three mounting holes to give different angles of dump. You only need about 10 degrees up from level, and 90 degrees down.

Depending on the attachment I am using, I have to select a mounting hole in the link. You could play around with a piece of wood with holes bored in it to test things out.

In the picture above, with the cyl fully extended, the rod travel is 18 in at the bottom of the curl arm assembly. The top part of the curl assembly is shorter, and therefore, it will move less, maybe 14 in. This 14 in will cause the bucket to tilt up or tilt down, so many degrees. If you change the mounting point, the degrees of tilt will change. The amount of bucket tilt will be determined by where the end of the link is attached, and that looks about 5 in from the bucket pivot point.

Trial and error should help you find the best solution.

There is a maximum length on the tilt cyl rod to keep it from crushing the tubes connecting the lift arms. You could even try a wood test stick there to find the optimum rod length.
 
 
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