Robin engine failure to start when cold - 422

[ernemats]

BRENT:
ON THE SUBJECT OF AUTHORIZED ROBIN REPAIR CENTERS THE LOCAL DEALER IN LIGONIER TOLD ME THEY ARE AN AUTHORIZED ROBIN REPAIR CENTER, I HAVE DEALT WITH THEM FOR YEARS FOR CHAIN SAWS, MOWERS, WITH GOOD RESULTS. THEIR NAME IS ANDREWS SALES AND SERVICE, 724-238-6020.

 

[ernemats]

I CHECKED THE SERIAL NO. ON MY 422 AND I GUESS I AM OK MY S/N IS 1010777. MINE HAS STARTED OK OTHER YEARS BUT THIS YEAR IT WAS NOT STARTING, BUT THAT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS NOT GETTING FUEL. MINE ALSO CAME WITH AUTOLITE 64 SPARK PLUGS INSTALLED.

 

[bullitt]

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Robin America told me about testing they finished about 10 days ago that identified the coil problem. Just be persistent.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

As the newest member to the Pittsburgh area PT-422 sub-group, I would like to be the first to declare victory on the hard-starting issue. I installed the new coils on Monday and tonight was the first time I've had a chance to try to start the machine since the temperature went back below freezing. At 19 degrees it started almost immediately. Before the new coils I could not start it below 40 degrees.

Brent - I obtained my coils under warranty through the Robin dealership in Washington PA (Murphy Family). Their service manager, Ron, talked directly to the Robin America representative that Bullitt put me in touch with. He is aware of the problem and the fact that Robin will handle it under warranty. They seemed reasonable to deal with and had Robin America's agreement to install the coils in my tractor under warranty. However, I decided it would be less hassle to do it myself.

 

[ernemats]

WELCOME ABOARD, SOUNDS LIKE WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO START OUR OWN ROBIN REPAIR CENTER .

 

[duane]

Pat,

Could you or Bullit describe the engine removal process for us. Did you have to disconnect any hydraulic hoses, did you remove just the engine, or engine with the engine mount. Did you remove both hydraulic pumps, and is there an alignment procedure when reinstalling. Any other hints.

thanks
Duane

 

[Brent_Griffith]

bullitt & ernemats, PatH, et al.,

Thanks to all for the info, updates, and confirmation! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm still going to take it to a dealer due to time constraints. I agree it's a bit of a hassle, but I just don't have the time (or facilities-i.e., heated) to do it myself right now. Since I'd already made arrangements with the Murphy Family, I'm going to go there. As to Andrews Sales & Service, I contacted them when I first had trouble starting and they advised me that they were not an authorized warranty dealer and that they might not care to work on the Robin engine at all. So...I looked elsewhere. Maybe I got bad information or maybe their situation changed.

Anyway, thanks to all. Let's hope this puts the cold start problem to rest.

Brent

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Welcome Bullitt,

I've been away for a couple of weeks now since it got busy at work...but when I logged on last, I was on my way to PT for one of those 422's...I didn't realize at the time how bad the "cold-natured" issue was for this model until mine arrived at my driveway on the 25th of Jan...with temp at 15deg. and I couldn't drive it off the trailer...That was a BIG disappointment...

...I've since discovered what everyone is sharing here as follows...Jack at Robin America passed on these pn's to me, also, but I haven't put the "fix" on yet...
1) HD starter=pn#263-70503-00
This starter is different than shown in the current parts manual...PUB-EP1549...Rev.06/01
2) ignition coil,2ea.,pn#263-78201-01
These coils are the SAME as those in the above parts manual dated Jun/2001...My eng.sn#=1016643
3) NGK BP4ES which of course is a different heat range than the Autolite 64's and ...BP5ES's & BP6ES's found in other references.

...Some observations made by a local engine tech that Jack G. recommended...
1) had carb on bench w/ float cover off...filled float bowl and put cover back on...some time later(2-3 hrs) checked float bowl=empty=mystery...
2)checked fuel pump o/p...looked to be about 1/2psi...Robin specs 2psi(nom) tech changed fuel pump...same o/p...
2 thoughts not verified a)pump design or b)weak "pulse" from crankcase...He had changed carb for the mysterious bowl loss, but it made no diff...he counted about 45 cranks to get bowl filled to start...
3)He measured cranking speed w/ old and new starter...
I don't remember the numbers but it went something like this...old starter/cold/hot=slow/fast...new starter/cold/hot=fast/slow where fast and slow are relative starter to starter...(hope that makes sense)
4) he had not heard about coils as part of the "fix"and had worked on 2 locally owned 2400 series machines...Since Jack(Robin A.) told me that coils are b.o. from Japan...I've decided to pursue the fuel issue while I'm waiting(this might be relevent for those down on power,especially on slopes...).

I've located a Facet fuel pump(12vdc,solid state) with a spec of 1.5-3.5psi from J.C. Whitney,pn#73us8895x,catalog #659J,page 190 @$36.99+Ill. tax and sh...(their online price is like $42.+s+h.
Napa has oem'd another version of this pump spec'd at 2.5-4.5psi priced about $32...I wanted the lowest psi rating available to avoid potential prob's...Nothing installed yet...but intend to bypass Robin pump such that a diaphragm failure won't leak fuel to crankcase.

...I remain hopefully optimistic... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[bullitt]

bmkar,

I have not worked on a robin carb, but if the fuel is not leaking out, it has to be going into the intake. The main nozzle appears to be above the bottom of the float bowl, so that leaves the idle circuit. The pilot outlet or by-pass seem to be potential canidates for leakage into the intake. Based on my experience with Holley carbs, this does seem wrong.

Keep us updated on the progress. Sorry to hear the coils are b/o.

Did the NGK BP4ES plugs help?

 

[bullitt]

duane,

No hose removal.

Unbolt motor at top four bolts.
Unbolt pumps and pull couplings apart.
Pull motor while watching for wires and such.

Not hard. Just look at it an do what makes sense.