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  1. #1
    Elite Member woodlandfarms's Avatar
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    Los Angeles / SW Washington
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    PowerTrac 1850

    Default Water in the fuel

    I guess living in the PNW I should just expect this, but last night filled the beast up, this AM, started it, ran for 20 seconds and died. Right off the bat I knew what it was. Such a bummer.

    Drained the water, ran into town and got a new filter, some Diesel Red and White and headed home.

    The issue is with my storage system for diesel. I am going to post it in the fuel thread but it suffice to say my bung isn't as tight as I would like (take it where you want ;-)

    But FYI to anyone who goes through this.... Here are the steps.

    If you are AR throw all your diesel away, drain and shop vac the tank. I am not. I have lived on a farm and know that diesel does seperate and most of the time you can make it work. So skip a bit ahead to the filters... If you are not AR, here is how I did it.

    So for me it was as follows

    I first unscrewed both fuel filters on the Deutz. The NAPA filter was full of water, and so was the primary screen. I had 2 plastic cups the party kind. I let the injectors drain back out of the filter holder (nearly 3 cups of diesel and water mix) and the secondary filter was taking too long so I unhooked the fuel hose and let it drain until I was sure it was red (off-road diesel).

    Then off to NAPA. new filter, a bottle of RED Diesel and White Diesel additave (Red is for water removal, white is a conditioner). Back home I filled the new filter with half RED and half clean diesel and screwed it on. I put all the hoses back, dumped some RED into the tank along with WHITE and then cranked, and cranked, and cranked, and recharged the battery (mine as well, went in and had some lunch) then came out and cranked again and it slowly caught. let it idle then took it out to play. Seems like I got that issue resolved.

    I am going to purchase on of those MR FILTERS as I see this as a re-occurring issue.

    Hope this helps someone.

    Carl
    Last edited by woodlandfarms; 02-22-2012 at 10:26 PM.
    Power-Trac 1850, grapple, hoe, 90" mower, 72" box blade

  2. #2
    Veteran Member SpringHollow's Avatar
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    Dec 2006
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    South of Rochester, NY
    Tractor
    Power Trac 1850, NH 2120

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    I have used this 6 qt funnel for years for my gas atv etc:

    https://www.denniskirk.com/outerwear...prd/290011.sku

    Ken
    PT1850, mini hoe, grapple, stump grinder, brush hog

    http://www.usadiscountgenerators.com...T1850Home.html

  3. #3
    Epic Contributor MossRoad's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
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    South Bend, Indiana (near)
    Tractor
    Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    So the water is getting into your storage tank and then you are transferring the contaminated fuel to your tractor, correct?

    What are you using to store the fuel in and how are you protecting the storage tank from water? Just curious.

    My tractor is gas and I use 6 gallon plastic cans. Its a pain. I would like to have a larger tank on a stand to gravity feed the PT, but have other needs for my cash right now. Plus, gas storage is a little more dangerous than diesel storage, in my opinion.
    MossRoad

    Click On My Little Tractor
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member
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    Mar 2007
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    1,253
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Tractor
    Power Trac PT1445

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    Or Carl, just get a RayCor water separator filter and put in line ahead of the first fuel screen. When it accumulates water, drain it. You can hook up a water in fuel light if you want. The filter also acts as a 30 micron prefilter which doesn't hurt. Try WestMarine or a RayCor/Parker dealer.

    Even with the PNW weather, I'm not following how water gets into the tank, but I believe that it is there.

    All the best,

    Peter

  5. #5
    Elite Member woodlandfarms's Avatar
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    PowerTrac 1850

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    I am still sussing the water issue.

    1st is that a neighbor said he had once had issues with this particular vendor. I find it hard to believe that water gets into tanks anymore at gas stations but I guess it can happen. They seem so sealed up these days.

    My diesel barrel has to sit under an overhang. A big overhang, but still, not in an enclosed barn. This winter I left the old pump in and the barrel empty (nearly empty). I limb had fallen, and bumped the old pump loose off the bung. It looked tight but clearly it wasn't.

    Now, the drum will get a bit wet on the top, but not severe. So I don't think it is direct rain that is getting in. But with the bung loose, condensation in the air could easily have gotten in.

    The thing is I pulled around a quart of water out of the system. I guess that would be a thin layer in a 55 gallon barrel but it seemed like a TON to me.

    I will look into the pre filter. Debating the MR FUNNEl purchase as well. Any thoughts?

    Carl
    Power-Trac 1850, grapple, hoe, 90" mower, 72" box blade

  6. #6
    Veteran Member SpringHollow's Avatar
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    South of Rochester, NY
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    Power Trac 1850, NH 2120

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    If I have an empty gas can, it will often have water in it when i check a few months later. This is due to the contraction/expansion cycles from changes in temperature allowing warmer humid air in which allows condensation when it cools. It never seems like as much water leaves as enters but that could be from the ground being cooler than the air because it does not seem to be an issue if the can is sitting on a shelf, just on the concrete or ground.

    All normal outdoor fuel tanks get condensation in them here. The water builds up because it settles to the bottom of the tank. If you installed a desiccant breather cap, one can minimize the condensation but I would think it would saturate fairly quickly. To prevent that, a heater regeneration system is now needed. As you head down this path, filters very quickly start looking like a nice solution.

    Ken
    PT1850, mini hoe, grapple, stump grinder, brush hog

    http://www.usadiscountgenerators.com...T1850Home.html

  7. #7
    Elite Member jonyyuma's Avatar
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    35 miles North of Memphis,TN
    Tractor
    kubota L3000dt, ford 8n1952

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    Springhollow, Interesting to read that moisture and humidity are a problem???Up there in the North? I would not dare to leave the fuel in the sunshine here??
    Okay, Legal disclaimer: Old but not senile, definitely do not have the answer to everything!

  8. #8
    Epic Contributor MossRoad's Avatar
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    South Bend, Indiana (near)
    Tractor
    Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    Quote Originally Posted by woodlandfarms View Post
    I am still sussing the water issue.

    1st is that a neighbor said he had once had issues with this particular vendor. I find it hard to believe that water gets into tanks anymore at gas stations but I guess it can happen. They seem so sealed up these days.

    My diesel barrel has to sit under an overhang. A big overhang, but still, not in an enclosed barn. This winter I left the old pump in and the barrel empty (nearly empty). I limb had fallen, and bumped the old pump loose off the bung. It looked tight but clearly it wasn't.

    Now, the drum will get a bit wet on the top, but not severe. So I don't think it is direct rain that is getting in. But with the bung loose, condensation in the air could easily have gotten in.

    The thing is I pulled around a quart of water out of the system. I guess that would be a thin layer in a 55 gallon barrel but it seemed like a TON to me.

    I will look into the pre filter. Debating the MR FUNNEl purchase as well. Any thoughts?

    Carl
    Interesting. When I used to work at the airport, we had a daily ritual requirement to "stick the tanks". This involved wiping a water finding paste on a wooden dipstick and dropping it to the bottom of the tank. We did this to both the jet fuel (kerosene) and gas. Remove the stick and any water at the bottom of the tank would turn the paste from green to purple (or purple to green, I cannot remember). We would record the inches of water in the tank. If it got to a certain level, we hired a company to come out and pump the water. The tank suction was not on the bottom of the tank. This was standard procedure.

    On our fuel trucks we had another daily ritual requirement to "sump the tanks" which meant to put park the fuel truck on an incline and place a clean bucket under the tank drain and let in enough fuel to cover about an inch of the bottom of the bucket. Let it sit at a slight angle for a minute or two and you could see any water bubbles start to gather in the low spot of the bucket. If there was water, we had to repeat it again until there was no water.

    Does your barrel pump suck from the bottom of the barrel? You could shorten it and get some of that paste and a wooden dipstick to test for water occasionally. Just a thought.
    MossRoad

    Click On My Little Tractor
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  9. #9
    Epic Contributor MossRoad's Avatar
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    South Bend, Indiana (near)
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    Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    Here's a link to something similar to what we used.

    Water Finding Paste - Water Finding Paste made by Oil Equipment Mfg.

    Just google

    water finding paste

    and you will get a bunch of products.
    MossRoad

    Click On My Little Tractor
    To See Pictures And Videos
    Of It In Action!!!


  10. #10
    Elite Member woodlandfarms's Avatar
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    Los Angeles / SW Washington
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    PowerTrac 1850

    Default Re: Water in the fuel

    Cool Stuff Guys.

    Ken. I noticed when I replaced my old pump with a new pump that the pipe looked moist, it had condensation but I didn't think that through. I guess this is why people say store you fuel tanks full.

    On small airplanes, there is a little tool and part of preflight is to fill up a of fuel from each tank. Water checks....

    Carl
    Power-Trac 1850, grapple, hoe, 90" mower, 72" box blade

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