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  1. #11
    J_J
    J_J is online now
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    15,781
    Location
    JACKSONVILLE, FL
    Tractor
    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    Quote Originally Posted by woodlandfarms View Post
    So here is what I kinda know... the lid is VERY heavy... I figure you are lifting around 60 to 80lbs and you are trying to get it over your head. The lid on the 1850 is big, and it houses a HUGE radiator that is filled with oil. Plus the steal that makes it up.

    The actuator looks interesting but so far I see only 100lb max.

    I have found a website with the type that go in cars and you can get up to 250lbs.... Actually you can get higher, but they are very short (Does this matter?)

    What I am getting at is that I am thinking this is a lot of weight, but maybe I am missing the physics here.

    So.... Here is a design question......... Lets say I am looking at the PT from the drivers side. The lid lifts like this \. So when I put in my cylinder, does it go in like \ or like /.

    Here is a linear actuator at 500 lbs.

    Surplus Center - 12.04" STROKE 500 LBS 12 VDC LINEAR ACTUATOR

    Mount it in the direction the lid is raising.

    A hyd cyl would be less expensive. Could even be an SA cyl. Power up gravity down.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  2. #12
    Elite Member woodlandfarms's Avatar
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    3,907
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    Los Angeles / SW Washington
    Tractor
    PowerTrac 1850

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    Cool, yeah, we are considering that as a short term option. Something that she can lift in the barn

    JJ, yeah, a cylinder is cheaper, but two issues, first is true cost. To plumb, make hoses and create a control will beat the cost of the Actuator. 2nd is real estate it is kinda tight in the engine compartment... But, still a viable idea here.
    Power-Trac 1850, grapple, hoe, 90" mower, 72" box blade

  3. #13
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    219
    Location
    south western michigan
    Tractor
    pt 425, JI Case, Gravely Comm.10A

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    stop in at a salvage/junkyard and scope out the lift mechanism on a ''cab-over'' style truck (isuzu comes to mind) the cabs are heavy but require very little effort to lift and have a locking mechanism to prevent accidental closing during servicing

  4. #14
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,082
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Tractor
    Power Trac PT1445

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    Dear Carl,

    The lid still opens like this __|. You don't want it to go past 90 degrees, or you would be lifting some of the dead weight of the cover, plus the force of the struts. Each cylinder comes with a closed length and an open length, and those will set where they need to be mounted on your tub and engine cover. You want the cylinders position so that when the cover is closed, they are directing their expansion (i.e. lift) upward. If the cylinder is not vertical when closed, you have to increase the lift numbers below by the dividing the sine of the angle into the numbers below. I have a worked example below that assumes the cylinder lifts straight up when closed.

    I'll try to work an example on how to figure out the strut location and strength. On the weight side, if we assume that the engine cover weighs XXlbs, and has a center of mass some distance from the hinge Y. For simplicity sake, if the mass is uniformly distributed (so Y is half the length L), then if you are lifting the cover from the far point (L), you will need to lift Y/L of XX, i.e. 50%, since half the weight is in your hand and half at the hinge. If you want to offset all of weight, you would need a lift cylinder of XX/2, if it were lifting from the far point (L). As you move the lift point closer to the hinge, the lift force goes up, by the ratio of the distance between the lift point and the hinge. If you were to lift at the center point, I think that the the lift force would be XX * (Y+Y/2)/L, or XX*3/4. If the weight is unequally distributed the math is a little more complicated, but I think that this will work as a first pass, since you aren't trying to offset all of the weight anyway.

    This is why you are finding short, but strong ones for cars; they are used to lift hatchbacks from very close to hinge, and thus have to lift nearly all of the weight of the hatchback.

    If you assume that the current dead lift on the cover is 100lbs, then by the math above, it would estimate that the cover would weigh 200lbs in total. So a pair of lift springs about a quarter of the way out from the hinge would need to lift a combined 7/8ths of the weight, or 175lbs, or two struts of 87.5lbs. You have lots of choices in that weight range. If you aren't adding a latch, you will need to offset less than 100% of the weight to keep it from bouncing open.

    If you have a shell on your pickup, you can see how how the struts offset the weight of the rear window, and how the geometry works out.

    If you need only a temporary fix, parking it under a tree, and using a rope and pulley might be simpler...

    I think that this math is correct, but feel free to chime in, if I have missed something.

    All the best,

    Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by woodlandfarms View Post
    So here is what I kinda know... the lid is VERY heavy... I figure you are lifting around 60 to 80lbs and you are trying to get it over your head. The lid on the 1850 is big, and it houses a HUGE radiator that is filled with oil. Plus the steal that makes it up.

    The actuator looks interesting but so far I see only 100lb max.

    I have found a website with the type that go in cars and you can get up to 250lbs.... Actually you can get higher, but they are very short (Does this matter?)

    What I am getting at is that I am thinking this is a lot of weight, but maybe I am missing the physics here.

    So.... Here is a design question......... Lets say I am looking at the PT from the drivers side. The lid lifts like this \. So when I put in my cylinder, does it go in like \ or like /.

  5. #15
    Epic Contributor MossRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    22,513
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    South Bend, Indiana (near)
    Tractor
    Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    If it were me, I would visit a junk yard, remove the two gas trunk cylinders and mounting hardware from the trunk of a Chevy Impala and try those in my PT. They are $30.00 new at Autozone, so I would think you could easily get two with mounting hardware for less than that at a junk yard.
    MossRoad

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  6. #16
    Elite Member BobRip's Avatar
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    Sep 2004
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    4,144
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    Powhatan Va.
    Tractor
    2000 Power Trac 422

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    Hey, get a second wife. Together the two should be able to lift it.
    Bob Rip
    Tell me and I will hear.
    Show me and I will see.
    Let me do and I will learn.
    Let me fail and I will understand.

  7. #17
    Elite Member woodlandfarms's Avatar
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    Los Angeles / SW Washington
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    PowerTrac 1850

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    Finally someone with an amazingly good idea...... NOOO WAITTTTT This one is already a nightmare.... A really bad idea bob ;-)
    Power-Trac 1850, grapple, hoe, 90" mower, 72" box blade

  8. #18
    Elite Member woodlandfarms's Avatar
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    Los Angeles / SW Washington
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    PowerTrac 1850

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    I posted this in another section of the forum, but my wife mowed over a bunny family, there were two survivors but one ended up immediatly in the jaws of the dog.. Not sure my wife will ever mow again so now no reason to worry about the lid.
    Power-Trac 1850, grapple, hoe, 90" mower, 72" box blade

  9. #19
    Veteran Member SpringHollow's Avatar
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    Dec 2006
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    South of Rochester, NY
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    Power Trac 1850, NH 2120

    Default Re: Lid too heavy for wife

    I have used the chain fall on my rolling bridge crane to lift the engine cover up and hold it up when i have the tractor parked too close to something to allow it to go all of the way back.

    Ken
    PT1850, mini hoe, grapple, stump grinder, brush hog

    http://www.usadiscountgenerators.com...T1850Home.html

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