PT capabilities as an all-terrain fork lift

[MossRoad]

Here is my unbiased opinion after 10 years of owning a PT425....

It won't do the job you need it to do and you will be disappointed in the end.

Why?
800 pounds is the tipping forward limit of the machine at the quick attach plated. Ad an implement and the fact that anything you pick up will be forward of the implement and the lift capability goes down. You end up lifting the rear of the PT off the ground instead of lifting the load. You will be right on the hairy edge of what is fondly referred to as "The PT Pucker!". That's when you are driving happily along with a large load and then you turn the steering wheel. With an articulated tractor (that bends in the middle like the PT) when you turn the steering wheel, they unit bends and actually becomes shorter and the center of gravity moves rapidly, which can cause the load to drop to the ground fast and the rear of the unit to rise off the ground. The benefit of this is that all of the weight of the tractor then transferrs to the front wheels and you gain traction! Its a squirrely deal until you get used to it.

Also, the PT425 is limited in slope ability by the oiling lubrication capacities of the motor installed. I believe the current motors are different than my older Kohler engine's 25 degree angle limitation.

The PT425 with a heavy load will struggle on extreme slopes. Also, extreme slopes change the center of gravity and lift capacity may be affected.

The gas engines are loud and you need full throttle to take advantage of the full hydraulic power. Also, the gas engines are meant to be run at high RPMs for the cooling fan to work properly.

You are also limited in lift height to, I beleive, 60" on the current PT425. Make sure that the forks can be leveled at that height before purchasing.

You will be happy with the units easy footprint on turf.

I would investigate larger PTs if I were you.

Hope that helps. :thumbsup:

 

[farm23]

I have a 1430 and got it because the 424 would not handle our slopes. I would not spend the money unless I made a trip to the factory and tried my requirements on a 425. The special larger wheel motors are a good idea but I expect you will have a problem if you have to move 700 lbs down a slope and lift up to the bed of a van. You are moving the center of gravity away from the tractor.

 

[aczlan]

Here is my $0.02.
Get a Toro Workman 3200 (the version with the 3 cyl watercooled Mitsubishi engine) which is rated for ~2300# in the bed (something like this), put on a hooklift (can tie into the built in hydraulics) and convert your equipment to work with the hooklift.
I have never run a PT, but from reading about it and running machines with similar functions/engines, they are not overly quiet. The Toro is very quiet and can hardly be heard from 50'

For driving posts, I would setup onboard air on the Toro (some of them have a PTO on the transmission that could be used, or you could use a York car AC compressor on the belt) and use something like: Striker Air-Operated Post Driver-2 CFM 80-100 PSI #43000 | eBay to set them, then pull them out with the hook lift.

Edit: If you need 4x4, look at a Workman 4200 like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVwggZtEMWA

Aaron Z

 

[3238dpw]

I think the idea of the 1430 is a good one, but if you put an attachment plate on the heavier items it might make the difference you need. it is difficult to say without trying it. How steep are the hills you are talking about? How long a period of time are you talking about to move this equipment. The longer it takes, the more heat build up and then hill climbing starts to "go down hill." Sorry I couldn't help it.

 

[1824]

Thank you for all the great responses.

It seems to me the only way to figure out if the PT will work for me is to head down for a visit. I do believe that I am looking at the 1430 for my needs, but still hoping the 425 may work. Anyway I am going down to Tazewell on wednesday to get a demo.

The sound issue for the PT may not be as big of an issue, as I first thought. The closest I should ever be to any homes would be about 300 feet. Also sound absorbing material around the engine cover properly vented of course may fix this issue.

I have looked at utility vehicle such as the Toro workman. My reason against them is simply without forks I can't load directly into or out of trucks, And it is difficult to get 700 pounds onto the back of a gator like unit. Custom building a hook lift onto the back of one sounds like an interesting idea. The more I think about the idea the more I like it. My issue is I'm not a fabricator and the cost to have what I'm envisioning seem quite high.

I am not talking about any specific hills I just have operated on some hilly areas including at ski slopes.

I can't give the time it takes to move the equipment as every job seems to be different, the longest distance we've had to move the equipment is half a mile from the truck to the final set location. For some reason there is no good way to drive a 26,000 pound truck through a water-park go figure.

cheers,
Stephen

 

[aczlan]

So you are loading into a medium duty straight truck then?
A couple of ideas in that case:
1. If the heights are right, a setup similar to a rolloff dumpster truck (2 rails and a winch to pull the loads up the rails) mught be easier to put on a Toro
2. What about something like a Kubota B series (or similar) tractor with no bucket, weights on the front and a forklift mast on the 3 point?

Aaron Z

 

[1824]

So you are loading into a medium duty straight truck then?
A couple of ideas in that case:
1. If the heights are right, a setup similar to a rolloff dumpster truck (2 rails and a winch to pull the loads up the rails) mught be easier to put on a Toro
2. What about something like a Kubota B series (or similar) tractor with no bucket, weights on the front and a forklift mast on the 3 point?

Aaron Z

Yes we use a medium duty truck.
We rent the trucks on a job by job basis for the moment, as the winter for us can be quite slow.

The roll off dumpster truck idea seems like a good one. I just won't know how well it works until I've already invested a substantial amount because it requires custom fabrication, which is tough considering there are no guarantees of the quality of the end product, (nor if it breaks, the ability to go rent something to get me by short term).

I was actually at a Kubota dealer today. I hadn't thought about putting the forks on the three point hitch, but my concern with compact or sub-compact trailers remains the same: they seem top-heavy. I currently have a Simplicity Legacy XL with a bucket on it, and I've rolled it once. Call it my stupidity, but I don't want to get involved in a top-heavy tractor for this transport device.

Another solution that I've been looking at is the Muck Truck with the powered quarter pallet lift. The problems with it seemed to be that it's slow, you have to reverse down hills, and if a belt goes or engine dies, it is without brakes (especially problematic on a hill, as it happened to me today at a demo).

Thank you for your ideas!

Cheers,
Stephen

 

[aczlan]

The roll off dumpster truck idea seems like a good one. I just won't know how well it works until I've already invested a substantial amount because it requires custom fabrication, which is tough considering there are no guarantees of the quality of the end product, (nor if it breaks, the ability to go rent something to get me by short term).

Good point. If you wanted to scope the rolloff idea out (check angles, etc), I would look for someone who has one for sale and go over there with a empty road case of the appropriate size and a couple of 2x4s.
Thinking more into it, if you used a deep cycle battery to run an electric winch (charged by the OEM electrical system) and a flat plate that bolted to the Toro dump bed with the rails mounted on it, you could switch to another Toro in under 2 hours...

I was actually at a Kubota dealer today. I hadn't thought about putting the forks on the three point hitch, but my concern with compact or sub-compact trailers remains the same: they seem top-heavy. I currently have a Simplicity Legacy XL with a bucket on it, and I've rolled it once. Call it my stupidity, but I don't want to get involved in a top-heavy tractor for this transport device.

If I went that route (thinking of our B7500), I would use plates mounted under the tractor for front end weight and (IIRC) our B7500 will let you put the rear wheels out to ~72" wide. It would also allow flexibility as a problem with the tractor could be alleviated by renting any tractor with a 3 pt hitch and a pair of hydraulic remotes.

Another solution that I've been looking at is the Muck Truck with the powered quarter pallet lift. The problems with it seemed to be that it's slow, you have to reverse down hills, and if a belt goes or engine dies, it is without brakes (especially problematic on a hill, as it happened to me today at a demo).

Looking at the Muck Truck powerlift (as seen at: Power wheelbarrows and motorized dumper accessories), I bet that you could mount that to the back of a Toro Workman MD (I would look for a model 2110 or newer as they have 4 wheel hydraulic brakes). The Workman MD is available in both Gas and Electric configurations, pull the dump box off, install a bed that doesn't hang over the back of the frame and mount the powerlift on the back. Might need to add some weight to the front though.

Aaron Z

 

[capt_met]

Forkster mini skid material handling attachments increase the capacity and lifting ability of your mini skid or compact loader, and replace costly hand labor and much larger equipment.

would this be an option? very turf friendly and hills wouldn't be a problem.

 

[boggen]

no idea what the technical term is for them. but have a good amount of companies around here. that run a fork lift. that attach directly to rear end of a large box truck or semi trailer flat bed. or like. the forks go into a couple rails through back of truck under the flat bed. then driver just drives fork lift right into back of truck., then lowers the lifts. (result) fork lift machine itself raises up off the ground. a couple straps and pins. locks the fork lift in. and ready to drive off. there is no trailer to load/unload machine. due to machine basically locks itself on rear end of the truck or trailer.

i have seen a couple versions. one resembles more of a zero turn mower as far as wheels go, were there are 2 larger wheels on it. and then a couple caster wheels on it. then another machine that has 4 larger size wheels on it. i think might be 4wd. if memory serves both had hyd "extension" boom possibly dipstick on it as well. so extra length of reach could be had. and possibly up to 2 stories high? if memory serves the 4 wheel version had "swamp tires" errr very wide tire, to reduce chance of putting marks into a lawn. the 4 wheel version seemed extremely quite not sure if it was gas or diesel engine.

the times that have been used here, is when ordering pallets of shingles, landscape timbers, rocks, etc.... and just paid for delivery fees.

========================
also....
telescopic forklifts. made more for out of the concrete jungle and more on work sites. and various terrains.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1038

regular fork lifts...
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1037

look through above links. at min, it might help you get a better idea of what is out there.