New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long

   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #1  

duane

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
310
Tractor
Toro 266H and PT422
Taking a stab at how the engine compartment layout change affects the overall engine compartment heat just for fun. The following numbers are ballparks for a PT425.

Typically, a gallon of gas contains about 115,000 Btu per gallon. At a rate of consumption of 2.2 gallons per hour (full load), this equates to 253,000 Btu per hour of chemical energy. Say combustion is 95% efficient; this results in 240,000 Btu per hour of heat energy. Mechanical energy created by the engine to drive the oil pumps equates to approx. 64,000 Btu per hour of heat energy. This leaves 176,000 Btu per hour of heat energy that must be removed from the engine. Heat from the engine is removed via the engine cooling fan, and the exhaust. (If I have estimated correctly, it's been awhile since I ran these types of numbers; the exhaust component is worth about 104,000 Btu per hour, and the engine cooling fan exhaust accounts for 72,000 Btu per hour.) Now some of the engine mechanical energy is lost due to hydraulic efficiency and I estimate a full load heat rejection of some 13,000 Btu per hour to the hydraulic cooler (minus any cooling taking place in the reservoir and hydraulic circuit). A total of 189,000 Btu per hour heat rejection working at maximum capacity, thats a lot of heat to deal with. (Many single family homes have heating units just slightly smaller than this). Us PT owners know that the engine compartment can get very hot.

In the previous engine compartment layout, the engine cooling fan pulls air in from the front of the engine bay, close proximity to the hydraulic reservoir. This will tend to preheat the air supply to the engine cooling fan to some degree. The engine cooling air and at least half the exhaust heat (the other exhaust half is blown out) merge at the back of the engine compartment. When the hydraulic cooling fan clicks on, it pulls a good amount of this heat up through the hydraulic radiator. (It also helps cool the engine compartment by pulling this heat out, but loads up the hydraulic radiator). The hotter the hydraulic oil, the more the engine cooling air is preheated (higher engine temps and so on). The battery and other components sitting in the back are exposed to this hot environment.

With the new layout, the Engine cooling fan brings in ambient outside air, no preheating, no pulling air around a PTO and variable volume pump. With PTs new muffler design and insulation, a significant source of the engine compartment heat load is removed. The heat stays in the exhaust and gets mostly blown outside the engine compartment. Now some of the heated engine cooling air is pulled up into the hydraulic radiator, but significantly less. The benefits from a heat load stand point:

·Engine should run cooler
·Hydraulic oil and reservoir should run cooler
·Battery is in a cooler environment, which should help useful life.
·Lower engine compartment temps which should help prevent aging of the rubber hydraulic hoses, and the like.

I think that the previous design is sufficient, but the new changes are an improvement from a heat load management situation, plus better access to components to boot. It would be nice to compare the old and new side by side and measure any of these theoretical differences. Now in the winter, the previous layout might work best since it helps keeps the temperatures up in the operating band. Just my 2 cents for the fun of it. What da think? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Duane
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #2  
Hi Duane -

That's an interesting analysis. I just got off the phone with Terry. He was enthusiastic about the new changes. I asked him whether it was worth it to get the new thermal wrapper for the exhaust - he talked me out of it - said it was not needed with the old design.

He did confirm that there is no 'fuel gauge' on the new units, and that the new metal fuel tank design left something to be desired, because unless one keeps the tank full all the time, condensation tends to make the inside of the tank rust (just like in your car during winter). He said the liked the plastic tank from that standpoint, but that the newer design does seem to run a little cooler. He didn't think it would make a whole lot of difference in the long run, but he thought routine maintenance was simplified - a good thing.

Sincerely,

Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #3  
Fun to crunch the numbers.

BTW... I can run at full throttle for somewhere between 4 and 5 hours. That means I only use a little over a gallon of fuel per hour at full throttle. Am I just lucky or do you folks get similar numbers?
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #4  
Moss-

My results are the same as yours - During heavy loader work (going up a steep hill), I run the throttle between 3/4 and full all day long, and I get between 4 to 5 hours on the full tank. I'm wondering why Pajoube was commenting about needing to fill up every 30 minutes? /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

-Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #5  
<font color="red">BTW... I can run at full throttle for somewhere between 4 and 5 hours </font>

Are you sure you are running full throttle?

On my machine, until I adjusted the tension on the throttle lever, I got 90-92% of the RPM's at "full throttle" that I get now after adjustment of the tension--the throttle would slip back that much. I also found that the difference in fuel consumption between the two speeds was significant--perhaps 25-30%. The mower blade speed is significantly faster and the cut quality better after adjusting the throttle tension
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #6  
<font color="blue"> Are you sure you are running full throttle?
</font>

Well, no. I suppose the only way to tell is with a tachometer. It isn't lacking any power, that's for sure. Anybody got a tach for the Kohler?
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #7  
<font color="red"> Anybody got a tach for the Kohler </font>

In my case I could hear that the engine was running faster when I pushed the throttle to maximum and held it there. I verified the difference with a tach.

As to a tach for a Kohler: Two options I have experience with: Tiny Tach or Multimeter Warehouse
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #8  
I did not have a full tank of gas that first day - second day (today) I filled the tank full and ran about 4 hours until refill. I did not go full throttle (3/4) for most of that time.
Was a very cool day, the heat from the engine kept me warm. Careful when walking by the exhaust port, it throws about 4 feet.
PJ
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #9  
Another nice thing about your design, Paul, is that the exhaust goes out the side. Try to hook up a trailer with the engine running on a rear discharge muffler like mine and you get a snoot full of heat. Also makes the pin on the hitch hot.
 
   / New PT425 Engine Compartment-Long #10  
Hi David -

I didn't realize that the muffler on the older PT425 goes out the back. My machine has the exhaust going out the side, like PJ's. I guess the machines built in June are 'interim' models. For example, they have the higher lift, more powerful wheel motors, pro engine, but don't have the re-plumbed engine bay.

-Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
 
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