Upgrading Wheel Motors

   / Upgrading Wheel Motors #1  

marrt

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
798
Location
Northern VA
Tractor
Power Trac 1845 and 425
I'm about to upgrade my White 14.2ci wheel motors with White 21.2ci (or bigger) motors. Any way to easily figure out the speed changes? The current motors are very fast. I'd guess 10 MPH. The tractor is faster than my 1845 and I have larger than normal tires on that tractor. I'd rather have more torque due to some hills on my property. Beside, with no suspension, I don't like going over 6 MPH anyway.

I'll get a local welder to lengthen the wheel motor boxes and take plenty of pictures.
 
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   / Upgrading Wheel Motors #2  
Martt. what tractor (s) do you own? I thought you were an 1845 and were looking at a 425...
 
   / Upgrading Wheel Motors
  • Thread Starter
#3  
I still have an 1845 but bought a 425 from a member here...guess I should have mentioned that. :)
 
   / Upgrading Wheel Motors #4  
Sidetracking but you said 1850? Typo? Or do you have 3 and an addiction problem and won't fess up here?
 
   / Upgrading Wheel Motors
  • Thread Starter
#5  
LOL. Yes, I do have an addiction...to sake. I had a bit too much sake before writing that post. Fixed now.

Actually, I own two properties. So I "need" two tractors, right?
 
   / Upgrading Wheel Motors #6  
Rationalize that tractor addiction however you want. Blame the sake. You could trailer them ;-)
 
   / Upgrading Wheel Motors #7  
Power Tracs, sake, trailers, typos all in one thread.... Gosh I love TBN!!!! :laughing:
 
   / Upgrading Wheel Motors #8  
Any way to easily figure out the speed changes?

Having been there, done that, the short answer is "NO" to the "easy" part. With a variable displacement pump, the inherent loss of efficiency in hydraulic systems, etc. -- all you can end up with it theoretical numbers.

However, the White catalogs list the specs for each size motor in a series separately, with a table for different flow rates (volume) and PSI. So, you can compare the specs, side by side, at different pressure and flow ratings. I built a spreadsheet that compared the numbers for the specific size motors I was looking at, using the data from those tables. Disregard any numbers above 2500 PSI (max limit for these PT designs, AFAIK), and about 12 GPM (though I'm not sure what the theoretical max for this tram pump is). Then you could use tire circumference to calculate the theoretical MPH. Since we're dealing with theoretical numbers, it is essentially a direct relationship. Twice the displacement yields twice the torque, and 1/2 the RPM (speed).

From practical experience in having done this twice now, and seat-of-the-pants observations, the CE-series 22.8ci would be a good choice to meet your stated requirements, if you plan on staying with the stock 23x10.50x12 tires. I ran CharLynn S-series motors about that size for a while -- though I don't recommend them for this conversion because the taper on their tapered shafts does NOT match the taper on the PT hubs. I couldn't keep the hubs tight, and wallowed them out -- they're very soft metal.

I'm now running White RE-series 28.3ci BUT I also went to 26x12x12 tires. Even with the taller tires it is SLOW (slower than your stated goal) but has more torque that the 425's design limits -- I've bent QA hitches, lift arms, etc. I have to be careful not to break things, and still find the weak points in the PT's design. So far, I love the torque on my steep hillsides, though, and have found the speed "fast enough" even if I am mowing at full treadle on the few flat spots I have.

As I said, I'd recommend the 22.8 size -- then you could go to taller tires if you wanted more speed...

BTW, my only complaint with the RE series wheel motors is that I have now blown the seals on each of the rear wheel motors. The first one went at about 250-300 hours of abuse, and simply ordered another wheel motor from Surplus Center to have a spare. The second one went yesterday, and I just ordered two seal kits. I'll have one put in the wheel motor I replace initially, then have to second one installed in the motor that just blew, so I'll have a ready spare next time...Surplus Center no longer has the REs in this size in stock (sold out, I guess) but at $179 each (with hubs) or $169 each (without hubs) they were a bargain while they lasted....
 
   / Upgrading Wheel Motors
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Thanks Kent,

Let's go through a few numbers. The Bondioli and Pavesi NT 10 pump comes in two flavors, 14 cu cm and 19 cu cm. So, at 3600 RPM, that's ether 13.31 GPM or 18.07 GPM. The rated pressure of the pump is 175 bar, or about 2500 PSI. Using rule of thumb calculators, 13.31 GPM at 2500 PSI would require 23.29 HP. The same calculation for 18.07 GPM would require 31.62 HP. Therefore, if I were guess, I'd bet the PT-425 uses the 14 cu cm pump and the PT-1430 uses the 19 cu cm pump (assuming it uses the B&P NT 10).

Now that we have some numbers, let's look at the White brochure. The "230" motor can take up to 3000 PSI continuous. However, just driving around with no load wouldn't require much pressure. Since White rates the RPM by pressure and GPM, we have to pick something. For conversation purposes, I selected an RPM of 60, assuming 15 GPM. Doing a little math, this results in a 4.1 MPH speed. Far slower than the 8 MPH advertised or my seat of the pants estimate. Doing the same math for your tractor, I get 2.3 MPH using a 26" tire. My guess is these number are off by 50%. Maybe something to do with the way they are plumbed in series. If so, my tractor speed would indeed be about 8 MPH and your current speed would be about 4.6 MPH, or a "speed walking" pace.

Tom
 
 
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