Hello all and assistance needed with a pt1430

[Russ321]

Hello to everyone on the forum, I must admit I have been lurking on and off for the better part of a few years ... Probably should have started posting quite some time ago.

Anyhow, the vast majority of my time has been spent on a pt180 (I don't know the vintage but it has a Briggs vanguard in it ... Potentially a second engine) that was more or less kept in immaculate condition by the previous owner. The hour meter reads around 1200 hours for what that's worth. The only modifications I have made to it have been replacing turf tires with industrial loader tires and dishing out the rims for better stability on hills. The tractor is mostly used for towing a trailer on hilly terrain and some very minimal brush cutting (more along the lines of mowing down a few areas of a five acre plot twice a year)

Granted its a tiny machine, but for what I need it to do I wouldn't dream of replacing it. It routinely tows loads up 25 to 30 degree slopes, slowly ... About 1/4 treadle. I am very used to balancing forward or reverse movement with PTO loads to avoid bogging or stalls on this little workhorse . . .

Now for the part that I am baffled over ...

My father purchased a used pt425 about 2 years ago and last month he bought a used pt1430 (lucky me for all the jobs a pt180 isn't quite cut out for!). Both of these machines don't climb nearly as we'll as the pt180 ... I wouldn't assume they would be directly on par based on their weight differences but the pt1430 is particularly alarming.

The pt1430 has about 3100 hours on it and is in good condition, no frame cracks or engine problems etc... However it will not drive up a 13 degree incline without stopping part way up the hill. The engine does not bog and I do not hear any whine from the wheel motors. The amount of treadle depressed seems to have no effect on forward movement up the incline either . . . Actually, without full treadle depression the machine will roll backwards after forward movement stops. Additionally, on one part of the hill, one of the front wheels will loose traction and spin, the spinning can be stopped by merely pushing on the tire with my foot from the operator seat (i know not smart, but what can I say, I tried).

Is this typical of a 1430 or is the tram pump,or wheel motors worn? My knowledge of hydraulics is limited at best and I haven't been able to find a thread that specifically deals with an issue such as this (if you know of one please point me in the right direction)

I did speak to Terry at PT briefly and he said the tram pump was the first place to start ... IE pay 1600 bucks for a rebuild and see if the problem is fixed ... My issue is that I don't know how well a 1430 can typically climb so I'm not sure if I even have an issue ... I just know that my little pt180 seems to feel WAY stronger while driving on slopes than the 1430 (which doesn't seem logically correct).

I also took a video of the machine on the test slope ... If that would be helpful to see ill figure out how to post it, just let me know.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, and no worries, if I am missing something obvious, I'm not easily offended!

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

Hopefully someone with some 1430 experience will chime in. Where you located near?

 

[woodlandfarms]

IMO, and that is pretty inexperienced, I too would look at the pump as being the culprit. 3K hours is a good chunk of time for a hydraulic motor. But, before you send it, I think JJ Will step in with a way to test it. My confusion is wether you would be testing the PSI or the flow on this one. If you can stop a wheel by hand then you are not holding pressure to the wheels. I guess JJ will say to put in pressure guage, maybe dead head the output pipe on the tram.

Also, your local hydraulic shop can do the repair as well.

Yes to video

Also, what engine do you have in your 1430?

As one side note, you said the engine does not bog down? Just to make sure, you have cleaned out ALL the fuel filters on the 1430? If it is a Deutz engine there are two.

I have included a diagram for my tractor. Not sure about yours but it should be similar.

 

[Russ321]

Thanks for the fast replies! I'll get that video up and get some additional info together tonight.

 

[Russ321]

Moss, I'm located in western ny ...

 

[MossRoad]

Beautiful country. :thumbsup:

 

[ponytug]

I have a 1445, so a few more horsepower, but what you describe doesn't sound right.

3100 hours is a lot of hours on pumps and motors, but there are hours, and then there are hours. A small amount of grit for a few hours somewhere in that 3100 hours could do a tremendous amount of wear to the pumps and wheel motors.

While I suspect the issue in the hydraulics, I would double check the engine fuel filters as Woodlandfarms mentioned, and I'd change the air filter, especially if you have black smoke. If the engine isn't bogging down, that suggests to me that it isn't the engine, but I would still consider a little engine TLC, e.g. a tuneup (oil change, filter cleaning and changing, new air filter, valve backlash, etc.).

That said, I have a couple of thoughts about why the low torque that you are describing might be occurring;

• the tram pump pre-filter is clogged
• there may be a coarse prescreen in the tank that might be clogged
• the pump is bypassing (leaking internally) oil and not developing full flow or pressure
• the wheel motor is bypassing (leaking internally) oil and not developing full backpressure (i.e. torque)
• Or both
• Or, the oil could be broken down and low viscosity, so it is so thin that it bypasses the pump and motors.

I'd change the filter first, and then perhaps the oil before I changed the pump/motors.

Good luck!

All the best,

Peter

 

[J_J]

Terry should have told you where to install a pressure gage to check the pressure on the tram pump. Check the charge pump also.

Basically , a flow and pressure check would be the first thing to do after changing the filter. If you can't do it, take it by a hyd shop and they can do the test to eliminate the pump as the problem.

Are you using max pedal to achieve more torque? Should use low to med pedal.

Two of the hyd wheel motors are in series and those two are in parrallel with the other two.

One or both motors in series could be bypassing/leaking.

Do your wheel motors have case drains?

 

[Russ321]

Hey guys thanks for all the info. [video]https://vimeo.com/m/110189369[/video]

It took me a while but here is a video of the tractor on a hill ... This is a 13 to 15 degree slope outside our factory.

JJ, on the slope I was initially using about 1/4 treadle to get up the slope ... When the tractor ceases forward momentum at approximately 1/4 treadle it starts to roll backwards, not until full treadle is applied will it hold its position on the slope (ie not roll back)

 

[MossRoad]

You have the pedal right. As you lose momentum going up a hill, you let the pedal off to gain more torque to the wheel motors. I think you are doing that. I don't hear any change in engine RPM, so it may not be your engine. It appears to be hydraulic related. However, as others have suggested, get your engine right, first. Then check your hydraulic filters, screens, etc... if you have them. They could be plugged. Also, be sure to bleed the hydraulic system of air any time you crack filters open.

As for your wheel spin, I THINK ( but can't be sure about your unit ), that the left front and right rear wheels are in series. Then your right front and left rear are in series. And those two circuits are in parallel. It looks like your left front is spinning. I'd think the right rear would be spinning a bit, too. If not, your right rear wheel motor is passing fluid to the left front instead of turning the wheel motor. When you are going up hill, more weight is transferred to the rear wheels. So your rears should be driving you up the hill. They aren't.