I've been wrestling over what I should get to manage a couple of wooded hilly acres I hope to build on someday. I think I've got it narrowed down to a NH TC-18 or a Power Trac 422. It's got to be versatile, small, stable on hills and cost is a consideration too. The TC-18 seems like a safe bet but the 422 is cheaper & looks like it could fit the bill. I just don't know anyone who has one who can tell me the pros or cons of owning one. Whatdaya think? I'll post this on the NH site too for fairness & balance.
PT 422 or NH TC-18
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MossRoad
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Welcome to TBN! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The NH is certainly a fine machine. Dealer support is there, too, if that is an issue.
As far as small, the PT will fit in the rear of a standard pickup truck, drive through a 4' gate and is extremely easy on the lawn. It won't tear up the turf and the front mounted implements are easy to see and operate.
I haven't compared the FEL capacities of those two models, but the lift height of the FEL might be an area of concern as the PT422 lift height leaves something to be desired(as does my two year old PT425), but I knew that going into the deal and it wasn't an issue for me.
The overall height of the unit with ROPS is another size issue. My PT425 is only about 5'6" to the top of the ROPS/Canopy. It will fit in any garage without worrying about folding down the ROPS or tearing into the garage door. Don't know the height of the NH.
The NH is a deisel and the PT is gas. They really are two different beasts. My PT425 provides plenty of power to the implements and wheels and I'm sure the NH would too.
What type of jobs are you planning to do with the tractor that you get? That may help decide.
I can tell you that I am completely happy with my PT425. It is very productive and you can change implements in about 15 seconds. This speed and ease of implement change really makes the machine much more versatile than a conventional tractor. You can mow the lawn, switch to the bucket, haul some mulch, switch to the brush hog, clear some undergrowth, switch back to the bucket and haul some logs then pop the mower back on for next week's chores.
Some drawbacks, it wouldn't be too good for plowing a field(although I've heard the tiller works very well).
For a homeowner or small estate owner, or a person that wants a small utility tractor for multiple jobs, this thing is hard to beat. Just my humble opinion, of course! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The NH is certainly a fine machine. Dealer support is there, too, if that is an issue.
As far as small, the PT will fit in the rear of a standard pickup truck, drive through a 4' gate and is extremely easy on the lawn. It won't tear up the turf and the front mounted implements are easy to see and operate.
I haven't compared the FEL capacities of those two models, but the lift height of the FEL might be an area of concern as the PT422 lift height leaves something to be desired(as does my two year old PT425), but I knew that going into the deal and it wasn't an issue for me.
The overall height of the unit with ROPS is another size issue. My PT425 is only about 5'6" to the top of the ROPS/Canopy. It will fit in any garage without worrying about folding down the ROPS or tearing into the garage door. Don't know the height of the NH.
The NH is a deisel and the PT is gas. They really are two different beasts. My PT425 provides plenty of power to the implements and wheels and I'm sure the NH would too.
What type of jobs are you planning to do with the tractor that you get? That may help decide.
I can tell you that I am completely happy with my PT425. It is very productive and you can change implements in about 15 seconds. This speed and ease of implement change really makes the machine much more versatile than a conventional tractor. You can mow the lawn, switch to the bucket, haul some mulch, switch to the brush hog, clear some undergrowth, switch back to the bucket and haul some logs then pop the mower back on for next week's chores.
Some drawbacks, it wouldn't be too good for plowing a field(although I've heard the tiller works very well).
For a homeowner or small estate owner, or a person that wants a small utility tractor for multiple jobs, this thing is hard to beat. Just my humble opinion, of course! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Bob_Skurka
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I have a TC24D, which is nearly the same as the TC18 but with a bit more power and a couple slight changes. I have been looking at a PT to possibly be a dedicated lawn mowing machine. So I am somewhat familiar with both.
Moss Road did a pretty nice job with the PT explination. So let me talk a bit about the New Holland.
My garage has standard height doors, the TC24 fits without folding the ROPS. There is an inch or two to spare, but not a lot of extra room, if I remember correctly the TC24 is an inch or two taller and wider than than the TC18 because of tire sizes? But I will admit to not double checking the specs before writing that so I might be wrong.
The TC24 is about 48" wide, so it will not fit through a standard 48" fence gate. But then again, with several acres to mow, you probably want a 54" or better yet a 60" mower deck. I have a little Cub Cadet 1862 that does most of our mowing, that tractor has a 60" deck. When I built my house, we had 72" gates hung and I am very glad I did that. It allows me to get pretty much anything I want in the fenced area without any trouble.
Gas versus Diesel. My choice is always diesel. But that is personal. Based on MY experience. Diesel costs more up front, but saves in maintainence in the long run and also has the potential to last twice as long. Most people with diesels probably get rid of their equipment becuase they get tired of if and want a new one long before they wear the engines out. Decades old compact diesel tractors with THOUSANDS of hours on them are common. Others prefer gas.
Dealer versus Do-It-Yourself. I prefer having a dealer. But that is becuase I sell candy & tobacco for a living and selling kids candy and adults who are addicted to nicotine is not rocket science. I am reasonably handy, but I am not a mechanic, and I don't have to too bright to sell kids candy. . .
PT quick hitch versus a Cat I, 3pt hitch. PT is easier, but implements seem much more expensive. 3pt implements are generally cheaper, but some are a pain in the heinie to attach (an optional "quick hitch" or adding a "Pat's Easy Change" makes chaning implements pretty easy).
All that said, both units have their advantages. The jobs each does best is different. Consider the tasks you will do and consider how mechanical you are. Those are probably the over riding factors.
Moss Road did a pretty nice job with the PT explination. So let me talk a bit about the New Holland.
My garage has standard height doors, the TC24 fits without folding the ROPS. There is an inch or two to spare, but not a lot of extra room, if I remember correctly the TC24 is an inch or two taller and wider than than the TC18 because of tire sizes? But I will admit to not double checking the specs before writing that so I might be wrong.
The TC24 is about 48" wide, so it will not fit through a standard 48" fence gate. But then again, with several acres to mow, you probably want a 54" or better yet a 60" mower deck. I have a little Cub Cadet 1862 that does most of our mowing, that tractor has a 60" deck. When I built my house, we had 72" gates hung and I am very glad I did that. It allows me to get pretty much anything I want in the fenced area without any trouble.
Gas versus Diesel. My choice is always diesel. But that is personal. Based on MY experience. Diesel costs more up front, but saves in maintainence in the long run and also has the potential to last twice as long. Most people with diesels probably get rid of their equipment becuase they get tired of if and want a new one long before they wear the engines out. Decades old compact diesel tractors with THOUSANDS of hours on them are common. Others prefer gas.
Dealer versus Do-It-Yourself. I prefer having a dealer. But that is becuase I sell candy & tobacco for a living and selling kids candy and adults who are addicted to nicotine is not rocket science. I am reasonably handy, but I am not a mechanic, and I don't have to too bright to sell kids candy. . .
PT quick hitch versus a Cat I, 3pt hitch. PT is easier, but implements seem much more expensive. 3pt implements are generally cheaper, but some are a pain in the heinie to attach (an optional "quick hitch" or adding a "Pat's Easy Change" makes chaning implements pretty easy).
All that said, both units have their advantages. The jobs each does best is different. Consider the tasks you will do and consider how mechanical you are. Those are probably the over riding factors.
MossRoad
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Bob,
When I was tractor shopping, I was looking at the TC21Ds and they are very nice machines. It was very comfortable to sit on and operate, too. Probably the most comfortable and ergonomically laid out machine that I tested. Couldn't go wrong with that purchase.
When I was tractor shopping, I was looking at the TC21Ds and they are very nice machines. It was very comfortable to sit on and operate, too. Probably the most comfortable and ergonomically laid out machine that I tested. Couldn't go wrong with that purchase.
Bob_Skurka
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Moss . . . the one ergonmic flaw I see with the TC tractors is the location of the headlight switch, and it is ONLY a concern at night while blowing snow with a 3pt blower. . . I have a tendancy to flip off the headlights accidently with my left kneww as I rotate in the seat to adjust the chute on the snowblower. Not a big deal.
The NH - TCs are pretty good mowing machines, although probably not nearly as good as a PT. And they are darn good little tractors for doing real tractoring stuff so that would be an advantage over the PT. The real question for people considering the 2 machines is what job needs to get done most often and what machine will do that job fastest with least mechanical stress. As jobs vary, the machine choice will vary. Realistically either machine will probably do 85% of the jobs that need to be done without much fuss. I rather drag a ditch with the TC18, I probably prefer to mow around the house with the PT. I don't know that either has an edge over the other for mowing a field, drilling a post hole.
The one thing I don't like about the PT is that there is no dealership. Like I said in my earlier post, I am handy, but I am NOT a mechanic. I understand the basics of hydraulics and the basics of engines, but given the option, I do not want to try to "fix" a broken whatever. . .
The NH - TCs are pretty good mowing machines, although probably not nearly as good as a PT. And they are darn good little tractors for doing real tractoring stuff so that would be an advantage over the PT. The real question for people considering the 2 machines is what job needs to get done most often and what machine will do that job fastest with least mechanical stress. As jobs vary, the machine choice will vary. Realistically either machine will probably do 85% of the jobs that need to be done without much fuss. I rather drag a ditch with the TC18, I probably prefer to mow around the house with the PT. I don't know that either has an edge over the other for mowing a field, drilling a post hole.
The one thing I don't like about the PT is that there is no dealership. Like I said in my earlier post, I am handy, but I am NOT a mechanic. I understand the basics of hydraulics and the basics of engines, but given the option, I do not want to try to "fix" a broken whatever. . .
MossRoad
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I think the PT is a far superior post hole digger for several reasons...
1. Power down! Ask Charlie about digging post holes. Power down makes all the difference. Most CUTs don't have power down on the 3pt hitch. With the post hole digger on the FEL arms you can bring the weight of the tractor down on the auger. Can't do that on a conventional tractor.
2. Out in front. You can see right where you are going to place the hole, no turning around.
3. If somehow you miss the mark side to side even with the great visibility of the PT all you have to do is turn the steering wheel left or right and the auger will move more than a foot in either direction side to side due to the articulation of the Power Trac. You really have foreward/backward left/right and up/down control for placement of the auger.
Brush hog is superior on the PT, too. At least for me. Having the brush hog out front lets me see where I'm going and I can run over and chop stuff up way before the tractor gets there. With a conventional tractor you either have to run over the stuff with the tractor before you get there or back into it.
Your concerns about no local dealership are well founded and real concerns to many folks. I have local lawn mower and small engine shops, so the engine part is no worse than getting a lawn tractor serviced. The hydraulics are another story. Power Trac will sell you replacement parts, but they can get pricey from what I've heard. Also, trying to find the replacement part yourself can be a chore, as Power Trac keeps those numbers secret. I can't blame them and don't fault them for that. With a little work, you can figure out what will work and where to get it. Our friends here at TBN have been very good about searching for these part numbers and such.
Bottom line is, the PT is a good tractor and so is the NH. They are very different machines but like you said, they both can get the job done and both can do it well. Neither one is the be-all, end-all machine.
In the big picture of things, if someone gets a tractor that they are happy with, meets their needs and makes them smile each time they get on it, they've done all right in my book, no matter what brand it is! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
1. Power down! Ask Charlie about digging post holes. Power down makes all the difference. Most CUTs don't have power down on the 3pt hitch. With the post hole digger on the FEL arms you can bring the weight of the tractor down on the auger. Can't do that on a conventional tractor.
2. Out in front. You can see right where you are going to place the hole, no turning around.
3. If somehow you miss the mark side to side even with the great visibility of the PT all you have to do is turn the steering wheel left or right and the auger will move more than a foot in either direction side to side due to the articulation of the Power Trac. You really have foreward/backward left/right and up/down control for placement of the auger.
Brush hog is superior on the PT, too. At least for me. Having the brush hog out front lets me see where I'm going and I can run over and chop stuff up way before the tractor gets there. With a conventional tractor you either have to run over the stuff with the tractor before you get there or back into it.
Your concerns about no local dealership are well founded and real concerns to many folks. I have local lawn mower and small engine shops, so the engine part is no worse than getting a lawn tractor serviced. The hydraulics are another story. Power Trac will sell you replacement parts, but they can get pricey from what I've heard. Also, trying to find the replacement part yourself can be a chore, as Power Trac keeps those numbers secret. I can't blame them and don't fault them for that. With a little work, you can figure out what will work and where to get it. Our friends here at TBN have been very good about searching for these part numbers and such.
Bottom line is, the PT is a good tractor and so is the NH. They are very different machines but like you said, they both can get the job done and both can do it well. Neither one is the be-all, end-all machine.
In the big picture of things, if someone gets a tractor that they are happy with, meets their needs and makes them smile each time they get on it, they've done all right in my book, no matter what brand it is! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Bob_Skurka
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I guess I don't have any problem digging in hard clay with a PHD on my TC24D and I don't have any problem positioning the auger bit in reverse either. Would it be a bit easier with a PT, perhaps so, but not enough so that I would call it a real advantage. I would just say it is different.
The same goes for mowing and brush hogging. I have no problem pulling a mower deck behind me, I just line the front tires up on the mark and drive. Again, it is not an advantage in my mind to have it in front or in back, just different. I would say that the advantage with a standard 3pt rotary cutter or 3pt finish mower would be choice of implement and choice of size and the implement prices.
I think there are a lot of differences between how things work that are, in the long run, neither advantages nor disadvantages, but they are different. In either case, both machines will do most of the work the other will, with near equal ability.
The same goes for mowing and brush hogging. I have no problem pulling a mower deck behind me, I just line the front tires up on the mark and drive. Again, it is not an advantage in my mind to have it in front or in back, just different. I would say that the advantage with a standard 3pt rotary cutter or 3pt finish mower would be choice of implement and choice of size and the implement prices.
I think there are a lot of differences between how things work that are, in the long run, neither advantages nor disadvantages, but they are different. In either case, both machines will do most of the work the other will, with near equal ability.
Charlie_Iliff
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Radar:
I bought my PT 1945 primarily as a slope mower, after too many sliding rides down hills on a JD 950 with 6 ft brush hog. We never rolled it or its Farmall 300 predecessor, but I, particularly, got too old for that level of excitement.
MossRoad and BobSkurka have touched most bases. I agree with Bob that a rear mower is fine for open areas, and add thatdoesn't put you in the chaff cloud that front mowers do. I personally prefer the front mower, however, for visibility and maneuverability. I think the front hydraulic posthole auger is far better that a PTO mounted one. You can put weight on the rear ones, or a downpressure kit, I understand, but generally they count only on the auger, which sometimes just polishes the ground. Positioning is far easier with the PT. My record is 78 holes in 80 minutes, which I simply couldn't have done with a 3 point.
For loader work, the conventional tractor may have an edge. It will lift higher.
For implement changes, the Power Trac wins hands down.
For dealer support, the New Holland has no competition at PT. There aren't any PT Dealers. I've gotten good support from Power Trac, but I don't join MossRoad in letting them completely off the hook for their secrecy about third party parts suppliers. More importantly, they refused even to talk to John Coxon - Sedgewood - during rebuild of his machine after a fire, because they were afraid his insurance company might claim against them.
I really like the machines, and have had no trouble dealing with Power Trac, but they are a quirky group - as their owners also tend to be. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Asolution. Buy both machines and post comparison tests on TBN. We'll all be happy to propose test protocols. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I bought my PT 1945 primarily as a slope mower, after too many sliding rides down hills on a JD 950 with 6 ft brush hog. We never rolled it or its Farmall 300 predecessor, but I, particularly, got too old for that level of excitement.
MossRoad and BobSkurka have touched most bases. I agree with Bob that a rear mower is fine for open areas, and add thatdoesn't put you in the chaff cloud that front mowers do. I personally prefer the front mower, however, for visibility and maneuverability. I think the front hydraulic posthole auger is far better that a PTO mounted one. You can put weight on the rear ones, or a downpressure kit, I understand, but generally they count only on the auger, which sometimes just polishes the ground. Positioning is far easier with the PT. My record is 78 holes in 80 minutes, which I simply couldn't have done with a 3 point.
For loader work, the conventional tractor may have an edge. It will lift higher.
For implement changes, the Power Trac wins hands down.
For dealer support, the New Holland has no competition at PT. There aren't any PT Dealers. I've gotten good support from Power Trac, but I don't join MossRoad in letting them completely off the hook for their secrecy about third party parts suppliers. More importantly, they refused even to talk to John Coxon - Sedgewood - during rebuild of his machine after a fire, because they were afraid his insurance company might claim against them.
I really like the machines, and have had no trouble dealing with Power Trac, but they are a quirky group - as their owners also tend to be. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Asolution. Buy both machines and post comparison tests on TBN. We'll all be happy to propose test protocols. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Bob_Skurka
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Charlie . . . one point you made that MossRoad and I skipped over is the slope issue. I have a 60' drop on my property, one slope is an honest 35 degrees. It is a short run on that steep part, but absolutely no tractor belongs there! We do mow it, as well as some other slopes that are pretty steep, but obviously only by mowing UP and DOWN and never even attempting a cross cut. And, I never take the NH TC24D onto that part of my property, only the little Cub Cadet garden tractor goes there, and it has 75 pound wheel weights and tire chains on it for climbing that slope. The NH does some other slopes and I don't feel tippy, but again, those are mowed UP and DOWN never crossing the slope while mowing.
All that said, I think my slopes are pretty extreme for Indiana; first time visitors to our home assume Indiana is FLAT until they see my little piece of land which is located at the cross of 2 creeks giving me some steep hills overlooking a lot of very flat land on the horizion. I find that the NH, when shifted into low gear range, will climb anything I have thrown at it, but if mowing slopes was my primary mission, then a PT or a Steiner articulated tractor would be better choices.
All that said, I think my slopes are pretty extreme for Indiana; first time visitors to our home assume Indiana is FLAT until they see my little piece of land which is located at the cross of 2 creeks giving me some steep hills overlooking a lot of very flat land on the horizion. I find that the NH, when shifted into low gear range, will climb anything I have thrown at it, but if mowing slopes was my primary mission, then a PT or a Steiner articulated tractor would be better choices.
MossRoad
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Hills! You're supposed to be in low lying wet lands over there! And all sand, too! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif