Steiner Front-wheel-drive versus PT AWD

[Bob_Skurka]

This may be somewhat unfair to ask on the Power Trac forum, and there is no Steiner Tractor forum so I am simply going to ask that people be OBJECTIVE in their answers.

I have asked about the PT 422 in the past and am looking for a tractor to use to mow a few acres, much of which has landscaping making tight turns a requirement, there are 2 particularly steep slopes, one about 15 to 20 degrees with a 15 foot rise, one that ranges from 15 to slightly over 25 degrees with a rise of about 40 feet.

After looking at the specs of lots of traditional garden tractors and finding them as lacking as my current Cub Cadet (which I have no complaints about, but it is simply not designed to do what I use it for). That has brought me back to the articulated machines. Steiner makes 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive articulated tractors, Power Trac makes 4 wheel drive units.

The tractor I like the best is the Steiner 230, it has a 14" turing radius and will easily run a 60" mower. But it is only a front wheel drive. I am trying to find out if it will climb the slopes.

I also like the PT 422, but again am unsure about the slope climbing ability of the unit with the hydraulic drive. I like the fact that it is 4 wheel drive and I'm sure slipping wouldn't be the issue, but power might be?

Can anyone with any experience in the smaller PT machines give me some insight on my comparison, is it valid? What are the weaknesses of the PT? Is the Steiner better? Is the PT better?

AGAIN, this will be for mowing. I don't care about all the other attachements. I have two other larger tractors that I love and will not be getting rid of. So from the standpoint of MOWING a lawn with steep hills and lots of tight spaces, I'd really appreciate some additional insight.

If you are not familiar with Steiner, here is a link:

Steiner Tractors


Here is a picture of the Steiner 230

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

I find it interesting how both PT and Steiner are locating headlamps in a place where front-mounted equipment will block them.

As for hills, I would think 4wd would be better than 2wd. Wouldn't it be possible to replace the motors on the 422 with bigger ones? Or is that just prohibitively expensive?

 

[yooperdave]

I have a Kubota F2400 front mount mower. It has 4wd and can also turn on a dime. I just love it.

I also looked at Steiners, but were WAY too expensive for what they offered.

Please also look at the Kubota front mowers.

Good Luck,

Yooper Dave

 

[eambrose]

Hey Bob - I tested the Steiner 430max on my property but not the 230 (I also like the 230) I can't speak for the 230 but I would love to try it. The 430 is very compact, even more than the PT and it is very heavy duty. I own the PT1845 now but also owned the PT425. The 430 climbed my hill with no problem running a 60 inch deck with either dual or single wheels - No problem - powered right up without missing a beat. My hill is 22degrees - very steep.

I had to sell the 425 because I had problems with getting it up the hill - not traction - it was very stable - but it did not have enough wheel torque - see my old posts which explain my problem - I think they are under some blank name because of a system problem at TBN. PT added higher torque motors so maybe now it is OK

The Steiner is different - it is hydraulic but runs a gear trans to the wheels so you get positive traction. The PT uses wheel motors - not a bad set-up - but if a tire breaks loose and spins you loose some wheel torque to the remaining wheels. They tried to mitigate this somewhat by changing the way it is plumbed but this is still how it works.

With the Steiner, you can change the gear ratio of the transmission to climb - that is how they are able to offer a low and high gear. And all wheels will still have torque if one does not have traction.

YES THEY ARE EXPENSIVE.

You can call a local dealer and go check one out. They will bring it to your property to test it.
You can't lose by trying it. They didn't charge me as I was in the market for a tractor. The Steiner is a better mower because that is primarily what they were designed for in golf course settings. There are many reasons for this as I posted in other threads. I researched this extensively and have used both tractors.

The PT has the advantage in price, a hydraulic loader arm and the hydraulic PTO which were the reasons I went with PT. But if you are looking at just mowing - It is an easy answer. PROVIDED THE COST IS NOT A FACTOR.


I suspect the 230 will also perform very well on hills despite not having four wheel drive for a couple of reasons - 1) it has a traction lock setting 2) it has a very low profile 3) it has a very wide stance (I think the tire stance is 59 inches wide) 4) It has a Hi / Lo gear setting - These are all very important factors in slope performance so I will have to say its performance will probably only be limited by the conditions you are trying to mow in. With that said I have not tested it.
And will not comment further

Also I think the Kubotas are nice - They are 4 wheel drive but they sit higher than the Steiner and at least the smaller unit does not have as wide of a stance - which would make me nervous on slopes

Hope this helps

 

[blackwell]

I have not tried the Stiener 230, however with your hills I think the PT425 would be better than the PT422. The extra hp and larger wheel motors would be a help. We mow 30 plus degrees with the 425 with good success.
Good luck!
EB

 

[JackIL]

Bob,

I have slopes of up to 30 degrees in much of my yard and have been using Steiner and Ventrac articulated tractors since 1995 to mow and do many other tasks.

When I first saw the Steiners in 1994 I was impressed, but thought the power would probably be inadequate. But just a year later I PAID a Steiner dealer to drive 150 miles to my home for a demo. He brought a 420 articulated 4WD with dual wheels and a 220 front wheel drive which was the predecessor to the 230 you are looking at. He had both 60 and 72 inch decks. Both power units had Onan 20 hp air-cooled engines.

First of all both units had plently of power for either the 60 or 72 inch decks for mowing on the slopes in October. The grass was not particularly tall and it was dry so the mowing part was not a major power consumer.

The articulated tractor with duals could go any direction on the slopes including sideways with no problem. Downslope braking was no problem. The front wheel drive 220 could not manage the 28-30 degree slopes even with the traction booster set to maximum.

The articulated tractor with duals is 66 inches wide, and the front wheel drive 220 was 56 inches wide. There is no problem running a 60 inch deck with the 66 inch wide tractor since the tire pressures are so low (6-8 psi in all). The grass that is run over on the left side doesn't get mashed hard and the mower deck simply lifts it and cuts it off on the next pass.

Steiner now offers a weight transfer kit for the 430 and it dramatically improves side slope performance when mowing.

I was so impressed with that first demonstration, that I ordered a 420 and several attachments immediately. Since then I have owned several other Steiners but later switched to Ventrac. ( Venture Products ). My current Ventrac is a 31 hp 4200 with dual wheels front and rear. Both Steiner and Ventrac articulated 4WD tractors with dual wheels are rated to perform on slopes of up to 30 degrees. I have been on sideslopes up to 38 degrees on them and was not close to turning over. The tractors did slowly drift downward on the 38 degree slope, but were not out of control.

Venture Products is owned by the Steiner brothers who were the original inventors of the Steiner tractors and attachments. In the late 80's they sold out and the Steiner business and the name have going through several other owners. Currently Steiner is a product line of Jacobsen.

I have been very pleased with both Steiner and Ventrac products. Since mowing sloped property is my primary requirement, the 4WD articualted tractor with dual wheels is a clear and obvious choice for me. They can also do many other tasks.

In another thread several months ago (I've forgotten when) I compared the Steiner / Ventrac turf tractor styles with the Power Trac style. It seems to come down to this: The articulated turf tractor is optimized for mowing steep slopes, but can also operate slip scoops, larger front loaders, and numerous other attachments. The Power Trac (400 series) is optimized for loader operation with many alternative attachments, but is can also mow. As I understand it, the 400 series PT tractors are not approved for operation on 30 degree slopes.

You will have to decide which configuration fits your needs, but I doubt that the front wheel drive Steiner 230 will be your choice for steep slopes.

JackIL

 

[BillG_in_TX]

Jack,

Your post was so interesting that I looked up your prior post on the same subject.

And here's your picture:

I think I'm ready to spend some of Bob's money on a Ventrac (or a Steiner). /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[eambrose]

Bob - one other thing - I think you said that the 230 was articulated - it is not - the other Steiners are though
the 230 is rear wheel steering which is why you can get such a tight turn radius.

Also I stand corrected on my 230 comments - as it seems it could not do the really steep slopes - But I think you should have them bring one out so you can test it anyway - you may be surprised at what it can do - I'll bet it gobbles up the 15degree stuff

you should also test the 430max - I have a feeling you will love it and end up forking over the dough

 

[Bob_Skurka]

WOW . . . The Ventrac 3000 series looks like a winner. It has the front mounted mower deck of the PT and the Steiner, combined with the 4wd of the PT, but looks more suited to mowing than the PT which looks more like mowing was an afterthought on a versitile machine. I contacted Venture Products to get more information. How is the Ventrac priced compared to the Steiner or the PT?

 

[JackIL]

Bob,

The Ventrac 3000 is considered a "homeowner" machine. It CANNOT be equipped with dual wheels and is only rated for slopes up to 20 degrees. It does have a built-in weight transfer system just like the larger 4000 series units which greatly improves steering and traction on slopes.

Prices of Ventrac and Steiner equipment are very close. They are both sold through dealers in contrast to Power Tracs only being sold factory direct. Therefore the PT prices are typically going to be lower because there is no dealer involved.

JackIL