Power Trac Winch Questions...

[MossRoad]

I know a couple of you have the winch from PT for the 400 series machines. And I know we've had this conversation before, but I'd like to have it again if you don't mind. Thanks.

Looking at their winch, it appears to be just a HUGE motor with a cable drum directly fastened to it. There's two hoses coming off the motor that go to the AUX PTO ports on the FEL arms. So that means in and out are controlled by the knee lever, correct? How can you pull the cable out as there appears to be no free-wheeling capability? It would be easy to put a cross-connector right at the motor ports with a valve that could be opened to allow fluid to bypass the tractor hydraulics to spool the cable out manually. Then close it for power application. But as I recall in a previous conversation, I thought someone said they did that, but it was still very hard to pull the cable out as your are fighting the internal gearing of the motor VS the hydraulic fluid.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions from the PT group? Thanks. :thumbsup:

 

[MossRoad]

Does anyone know the displacement of the motor on the PT winch?

 

[MossRoad]

Thinking about the motor on my brush hog, it spins very easily by hand when not connected to the tractor hydraulics. However, its a very small displacement motor compared to what's shown on the PT winch.

 

[KentT]

Can't answer your questions, but if you have your mind set on a hydraulic winch I suggest you look at the Milemarker line.

Hydraulic Winches | Product Types | Mile Marker Industries

They provide hydraulic winches to the Army, designed to run off power steering pumps, and are far more refined than the Tazewell-made winch, including a disengagement that let's them freewheel, so you can pull the cable out...

 

[MossRoad]

Can't answer your questions, but if you have your mind set on a hydraulic winch I suggest you look at the Milemarker line.

Hydraulic Winches | Product Types | Mile Marker Industries

They provide hydraulic winches to the Army, designed to run off power steering pumps, and are far more refined than the Tazewell-made winch, including a disengagement that let's them freewheel, so you can pull the cable out...

Oh, I've been looking at them. :licking:

The price tag is a bit salty for me, though. The PT winch is about 2/3 to 1/2 the cost. And looking at the PT winch, I could probably build one myself. A motor would be about $150-$200. Some bearings, a shaft, a drum and some plate... I could get away for less than $500.

 

[BobRip]

I have tried put a bypass from in to out so I could manually pull the cable out. I could not really do it. I used it last year to winch a log up a hill. It works but is kinda of slow. My main purpose is recovery in case I get stuck in the swamp. Of course since I got it I have not been stuck much.

 

[MossRoad]

I have tried put a bypass from in to out so I could manually pull the cable out. I could not really do it. I used it last year to winch a log up a hill. It works but is kinda of slow. My main purpose is recovery in case I get stuck in the swamp. Of course since I got it I have not been stuck much.

Thanks, Bob. Kinda like washing the car to make it rain, eh? :laughing:

So its strictly power-out then?

OK. So a few more questions, if you don't mind.

First, did you get the log up the hill, how big was it, and did it seem to strain the machine at all?
Second, about how slow are we talking? Say, how long would it take to move something 10'? 30 seconds, 5 minutes? Just a ballpark guess would be fine.

Which PTO do you run it off of, main or AUX? In the Power Trac photos it shows running off the AUX, which makes sense to me for directional control.

I've been doing some reading. There's two ways for me to approach it.

1. Get a really big displacement motor and direct drive it (like the PT design). It will be slow, but simple, simple, simple. I could put a removable pin in the shaft to make it freewheeling. Not too hard.

2. Get a small displacement motor and drive a gear reduction. More complicated but some options there.

I've been looking at something like a 0.33 cubic inch motor. At the 4GPM flow rate of the AUX PTO, I should be able to get about 2800rpm out of that motor. Put that into a 50:1 gear reduction and I should be looking at something like 56RPM on the final drive. On a 4" diameter drum that's about 12.5" in circumference, so we'll round things down to about 60RPM on a 1' around drum, so about a foot per second at maximum flow. That doesn't seem too bad to me.

Smaller displacement motors are cheaper than larger displacement motors. But gear reductions aren't cheap.

I've found some references to using center-pivot irrigation gear reductions for winch drive. Someone on TBN has a couple, and he also posted on another forum. Looks interesting. Brand new center-pivot gear drives are less than $300. A motor is about $150. So I'd have $450 plus steel, some bearings, and hoses.

Anyhow, just throwing some ideas around.

Either way I go will require shaft, drum, bearings, plate steel, hoses, and a removable pin for free-wheeling. I found a center-pivot gear reduction that is towable. That turns out to be.... a removable pin in the shaft! hahaha.

Anyhow, any insight would be appreciated. I'm still leaning towards the large displacement motor, slow speed, simple idea VS the gear reduction. It would also be less weight and easier to use on my trailer and PT VS a larger unit with gear reduction.

Thanks, again.

 

[SpringHollow]

I bought an electric winch to use with the PT and was keeping my eyes open for hydraulic ones I could adapt. But I bought a PortableWinch and find that so much more useful than a winch mounted on the tractor that I do not see where I would ever do a hydraulic winch on the PT. I never use the electrical winch any more.

Ken

 

[ponytug]

Can I ask what you want to use it for?

If you want to be able to free spool out, you could put in a bypass valve with a check valve.

The PT winch is $950, with 50' of rope.
The Northerntool version is $1,400, plus rope.

One you can use only on your tractor, only when the engine is running.
The other you can use any time anywhere.

I think it comes down to what and how you want to use it.

Personally, I have looked at putting together a high capacity winch for years. One of my challenges is wanting to winch heavier items that the PT can't really do for weight/friction reasons. For me, it has always come down to what would I use it for that I can't do with chains and cables? For me, that turns out to be not much. Talk to me after my tractor breaks down on a hillside somewhere...

As always, YMMV....

All the best,

Peter

 

[BobRip]

Thanks, Bob. Kinda like washing the car to make it rain, eh? :laughing:

So its strictly power-out then?

OK. So a few more questions, if you don't mind.

First, did you get the log up the hill, how big was it, and did it seem to strain the machine at all?
Second, about how slow are we talking? Say, how long would it take to move something 10'? 30 seconds, 5 minutes? Just a ballpark guess would be fine.

Which PTO do you run it off of, main or AUX? In the Power Trac photos it shows running off the AUX, which makes sense to me for directional control.

I've been doing some reading. There's two ways for me to approach it.

1. Get a really big displacement motor and direct drive it (like the PT design). It will be slow, but simple, simple, simple. I could put a removable pin in the shaft to make it freewheeling. Not too hard.

2. Get a small displacement motor and drive a gear reduction. More complicated but some options there.

I've been looking at something like a 0.33 cubic inch motor. At the 4GPM flow rate of the AUX PTO, I should be able to get about 2800rpm out of that motor. Put that into a 50:1 gear reduction and I should be looking at something like 56RPM on the final drive. On a 4" diameter drum that's about 12.5" in circumference, so we'll round things down to about 60RPM on a 1' around drum, so about a foot per second at maximum flow. That doesn't seem too bad to me.

Smaller displacement motors are cheaper than larger displacement motors. But gear reductions aren't cheap.

I've found some references to using center-pivot irrigation gear reductions for winch drive. Someone on TBN has a couple, and he also posted on another forum. Looks interesting. Brand new center-pivot gear drives are less than $300. A motor is about $150. So I'd have $450 plus steel, some bearings, and hoses.

Anyhow, just throwing some ideas around.

Either way I go will require shaft, drum, bearings, plate steel, hoses, and a removable pin for free-wheeling. I found a center-pivot gear reduction that is towable. That turns out to be.... a removable pin in the shaft! hahaha.

Anyhow, any insight would be appreciated. I'm still leaning towards the large displacement motor, slow speed, simple idea VS the gear reduction. It would also be less weight and easier to use on my trailer and PT VS a larger unit with gear reduction.

Thanks, again.

The log was about 500 pounds. No trouble moving. I was running it off the aux, but Terry said it could be run off the PTO. You would need a reversing valve. It was about 5 minutes to move it 75 feet. Just a guess of course. It was not supper slow, but I could have just pulled the log by driving backwards. I wanted to see the winch in action.
I think it would work very well with the PTO HYDRAULICS. I would like to have a release so I could pull the cable out manually. Think about that.