davesisk
Platinum Member
What\'s driving up the price of steel?
Does anyone know the root cause? Just curious...
Dave
Does anyone know the root cause? Just curious...
Dave
Price Check What's driving up the price of steel?
- Thread starter davesisk
- Start date
SMJ
Member
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
China's growing industrial base is sucking up many basic commodities including steel.
China's growing industrial base is sucking up many basic commodities including steel.
FOURTEEN
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 1,028
- Location
- Efland - Triangle of North Carolina.
- Tractor
- 2004 Power Trac PT-425
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
"" China's growing industrial base is sucking up many basic commodities including steel. ""
which are used to produce the goods that Americans rush to buy at WalMart at cheap prices!!
Americans then use the money saved to buy even more goods which use even more basic commodities!
Most people win, but a few lose!!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
"" China's growing industrial base is sucking up many basic commodities including steel. ""
which are used to produce the goods that Americans rush to buy at WalMart at cheap prices!!
Americans then use the money saved to buy even more goods which use even more basic commodities!
Most people win, but a few lose!!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Most people win, but a few lose!!
)</font>
No offense, Fourteen, but I'm not sure I see any reason for smiley faces on this particular post. Yes, a few lose, but unfortunately, those "few" typically lose big. That includes the workers here whose jobs have essentially gone to China, the Chinese folks who work 16 hours/day for $0.20 per hour in deplorable conditions, and the smaller American manufacturers (like Power-trac) who have more difficulty competing with those $0.20/hour workers.
I'm a consultant in the computer industry, and it's somewhat dis-heartening to see professional jobs (like programmers, accountants, project managers, etc.) go overseas to India, China, Taiwan, etc. I've this "off-shoring" attempted twice in the past two years (by the same company, no less), and both attempts failed miserably. The bulk of the US is in professional roles, and there's a very detrimental impact to this off-shoring: it only works if only a few businesses do it. It everyone does it, then businesses will find at large that their customers and suppliers are unemployed. The "good" news (if you can call it that) is that most of these attempt fail miserably. These failed attempts show that people are not simply "cogs" in a machine...businesses don't make, buy, and sell products and services...PEOPLE do.
The macro-economic impacts of off-shoring US work are not as cut and dried as you seem to think. Sorry to get on a soap-box, but I have some pretty strong opinions in this area.
Best regards,
Dave
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Most people win, but a few lose!!
)</font>
No offense, Fourteen, but I'm not sure I see any reason for smiley faces on this particular post. Yes, a few lose, but unfortunately, those "few" typically lose big. That includes the workers here whose jobs have essentially gone to China, the Chinese folks who work 16 hours/day for $0.20 per hour in deplorable conditions, and the smaller American manufacturers (like Power-trac) who have more difficulty competing with those $0.20/hour workers.
I'm a consultant in the computer industry, and it's somewhat dis-heartening to see professional jobs (like programmers, accountants, project managers, etc.) go overseas to India, China, Taiwan, etc. I've this "off-shoring" attempted twice in the past two years (by the same company, no less), and both attempts failed miserably. The bulk of the US is in professional roles, and there's a very detrimental impact to this off-shoring: it only works if only a few businesses do it. It everyone does it, then businesses will find at large that their customers and suppliers are unemployed. The "good" news (if you can call it that) is that most of these attempt fail miserably. These failed attempts show that people are not simply "cogs" in a machine...businesses don't make, buy, and sell products and services...PEOPLE do.
The macro-economic impacts of off-shoring US work are not as cut and dried as you seem to think. Sorry to get on a soap-box, but I have some pretty strong opinions in this area.
Best regards,
Dave
FOURTEEN
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 1,028
- Location
- Efland - Triangle of North Carolina.
- Tractor
- 2004 Power Trac PT-425
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
I only stated what is happening, not a list of the pluses and minuses of the free enterprise system!
The WalMart shoppers make a free choice as to where to buy what they need or want! Thank God that here in America they still have that freedom! Most people do what is economically best for themselves! They do not buy poor quality products so that they can help support repair shops! If they no longer buy CB Radios for their cars, then the CB maker should start making CD Changers that the people will buy! I bought a PT-425 because it is a better product!!
I do know that high tariffs and isolationism exacerbated the Great Depression and led us into WWII!
Living in this great country I can't help but smile!!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I only stated what is happening, not a list of the pluses and minuses of the free enterprise system!
The WalMart shoppers make a free choice as to where to buy what they need or want! Thank God that here in America they still have that freedom! Most people do what is economically best for themselves! They do not buy poor quality products so that they can help support repair shops! If they no longer buy CB Radios for their cars, then the CB maker should start making CD Changers that the people will buy! I bought a PT-425 because it is a better product!!
I do know that high tariffs and isolationism exacerbated the Great Depression and led us into WWII!
Living in this great country I can't help but smile!!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
GarretV
New member
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
I think it's mostly the China thing but suspect that the steel companies are also taking advantage of the situation to skim off as much as the can get away with while they can.
I for one have been directly affected by this as I was laid-off two weeks ago as a tool & die designer. My company is conservative, not in over their heads in debt, but there is no new work coming in. Once the current supply of strip steel we have in house for customer parts is gone we will not be running their dies anymore as we would lose money on every part we shipped out to them. The Big 3 continue to demand price concessions from their suppliers, could care less that our steel costs are going up, and yet raise automobile prices every year.
I fear that the industry I have made a living from for almost 25 years is dying. I have to prepare for the eventuality that I may have to sell my house. And my dream of owning a Power-Trac is gone...
Don't let anyone tell you that the economy and jobs are improving, they are ignoring the manufacturers.
GarretV
I think it's mostly the China thing but suspect that the steel companies are also taking advantage of the situation to skim off as much as the can get away with while they can.
I for one have been directly affected by this as I was laid-off two weeks ago as a tool & die designer. My company is conservative, not in over their heads in debt, but there is no new work coming in. Once the current supply of strip steel we have in house for customer parts is gone we will not be running their dies anymore as we would lose money on every part we shipped out to them. The Big 3 continue to demand price concessions from their suppliers, could care less that our steel costs are going up, and yet raise automobile prices every year.
I fear that the industry I have made a living from for almost 25 years is dying. I have to prepare for the eventuality that I may have to sell my house. And my dream of owning a Power-Trac is gone...
Don't let anyone tell you that the economy and jobs are improving, they are ignoring the manufacturers.
GarretV
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
I've been concerned for a long time about this. Under the Reagan years I lost my job because of trade policies that favored foreign companies, they did give us extra weeks of unemployment benefits for those that lost their job because of their bad trade law, big deal. At thet time it was Japan that was dumping on us. You see when the foreign countries dump cheap steel into our markets it not only effects the steel producers it also affects the coal producers. With the taxes lost from those workers those that still have jobs have to pick up the tab, and our economy is in a downward spiral. Some think it is no big deal for the government to spend more than it takes in causing deficit spending when that happens interest has to be paid and where do they look to make up for it, not from the rich they get a tax break that is redicoluse and give chump change to the mediam income workers that makes them think that they get a good deal from it. Never mind you get the picture there isn't hardly anything made in the usa any more. What is going on now is that the rich have found a new market of workers to exploit the way they did with the slaves and the endentured servants and more people should be alarmed about this. The prices we pay are somewhat less but the profit margins for thowe companies goes way up , that way they can pay these ceos hundreds of times more than their hourly workers make, while at the same time they are bankrupting our country and eventually the very companies that they work for who think they are in hog heaven. I hope no one is offended by this response but we have a serious problem on our hands as a country, this is just one that I have passion about.
I've been concerned for a long time about this. Under the Reagan years I lost my job because of trade policies that favored foreign companies, they did give us extra weeks of unemployment benefits for those that lost their job because of their bad trade law, big deal. At thet time it was Japan that was dumping on us. You see when the foreign countries dump cheap steel into our markets it not only effects the steel producers it also affects the coal producers. With the taxes lost from those workers those that still have jobs have to pick up the tab, and our economy is in a downward spiral. Some think it is no big deal for the government to spend more than it takes in causing deficit spending when that happens interest has to be paid and where do they look to make up for it, not from the rich they get a tax break that is redicoluse and give chump change to the mediam income workers that makes them think that they get a good deal from it. Never mind you get the picture there isn't hardly anything made in the usa any more. What is going on now is that the rich have found a new market of workers to exploit the way they did with the slaves and the endentured servants and more people should be alarmed about this. The prices we pay are somewhat less but the profit margins for thowe companies goes way up , that way they can pay these ceos hundreds of times more than their hourly workers make, while at the same time they are bankrupting our country and eventually the very companies that they work for who think they are in hog heaven. I hope no one is offended by this response but we have a serious problem on our hands as a country, this is just one that I have passion about.
daedong
Veteran Member
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
Here in oz steel has never been cheaper, so its not world price hike's.
Here in oz steel has never been cheaper, so its not world price hike's.
toolz_not_toyz
Gold Member
Re: What\'s driving up the price of steel?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm a consultant in the computer industry, and it's somewhat dis-heartening to see professional jobs (like programmers, accountants, project managers, etc.) go overseas to India, China, Taiwan, etc. )</font>
I'm in the computer industry myself and find it interesting that whenever this topic comes up most people (I'm not singling out Fourteen or anyone else in this case) simply choose to spit out the now familiar notion that "There's no way to stop it and it's really the best thing for all of us."
I have always felt that countries need to to be self-sufficient. They need to be able to design and build their products. Unfortunately, economic theory (which is only "theory", and people seem to miss that point even though its clear with how often the "theory" is wrong because it is based on historical data...and history always changes how the story is told) tells us that it is good for society to reach for the upper echelons of the work hierarchy. That is, manufacturing should be shipped out and everyone else should upgrade their skills to become scientists, architects, designers of some sort, etc. This is probably what ex-truckers were told and ex-automobile line workers were told before they headed off to retrain. The only part of the problem, which the majority seems to ignore, is that this time those better jobs (like project managers, computer programmers, etc) are getting shipped out. There is no way that the U.S., or Canada, etc., are ever going to get to a point where all workers will be qualified to do whatever superior jobs some economist thinks are appropriate to stay at home. Also, the major economic fact that everyone (especially economosits) seems to ignore is that with greater efficient (such as shipping work overseas) you need less workers. So in essence, the more jobs you ship out, the less jobs will be required here. But the people making these decisions are such short-term thinkers anyway since they only care about now and seem to forget about our childrens' future.
One of the major reasons I like Power-Trac is because the equipment is designed and manufactured here in the United States. And I will always choose to support something like that if it results in a product that compares favorably with the other stuff. More Americans need to make that moral decision to keep jobs at home and that is the message that our politicians should be spreading in order to combat the movement of jobs out of the country. And I'm not just saying that as a fellow American, rather as a Canadian living in America; so if I can do it then so can everyone else around here. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm a consultant in the computer industry, and it's somewhat dis-heartening to see professional jobs (like programmers, accountants, project managers, etc.) go overseas to India, China, Taiwan, etc. )</font>
I'm in the computer industry myself and find it interesting that whenever this topic comes up most people (I'm not singling out Fourteen or anyone else in this case) simply choose to spit out the now familiar notion that "There's no way to stop it and it's really the best thing for all of us."
I have always felt that countries need to to be self-sufficient. They need to be able to design and build their products. Unfortunately, economic theory (which is only "theory", and people seem to miss that point even though its clear with how often the "theory" is wrong because it is based on historical data...and history always changes how the story is told) tells us that it is good for society to reach for the upper echelons of the work hierarchy. That is, manufacturing should be shipped out and everyone else should upgrade their skills to become scientists, architects, designers of some sort, etc. This is probably what ex-truckers were told and ex-automobile line workers were told before they headed off to retrain. The only part of the problem, which the majority seems to ignore, is that this time those better jobs (like project managers, computer programmers, etc) are getting shipped out. There is no way that the U.S., or Canada, etc., are ever going to get to a point where all workers will be qualified to do whatever superior jobs some economist thinks are appropriate to stay at home. Also, the major economic fact that everyone (especially economosits) seems to ignore is that with greater efficient (such as shipping work overseas) you need less workers. So in essence, the more jobs you ship out, the less jobs will be required here. But the people making these decisions are such short-term thinkers anyway since they only care about now and seem to forget about our childrens' future.
One of the major reasons I like Power-Trac is because the equipment is designed and manufactured here in the United States. And I will always choose to support something like that if it results in a product that compares favorably with the other stuff. More Americans need to make that moral decision to keep jobs at home and that is the message that our politicians should be spreading in order to combat the movement of jobs out of the country. And I'm not just saying that as a fellow American, rather as a Canadian living in America; so if I can do it then so can everyone else around here. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif