1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler

   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler #1  

MikeOConnor

Silver Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2002
Messages
170
Location
Western Wisconsin
Tractor
Two Power-Trac 1850s (preferred for mowing and grapple-bucket clearing type work on really steep hills). Kubota M680 for snowblowing, grading, bucket.
hi gang,

i'm following up on a comment made in a post about how bad the 18xx's are for overheating.

it turns out that there is indeed an "Ag oil cooler" that can be ordered from Deutz that may be what we're looking for. i'm still researching and hope to have a drawing that i'll post to this thread when i get it.

here's the info that i needed to know about my machine in order to break the code at my local Deutz distributor. on my 1850 the Motor-Type is F4L 1011 F. talking to the local guy, that means the part number of the oil cooler on my engine is 4270522, but that's been replaced twice and the newest version of that part is 4272660 (so they may be fixing our problem on the standard engine).

the part number for the Ag oil cooler is 4272657 on my engine. the local guys quoted that at $1037, and said that there aren't any in inventory in the US.

i don't know if the engine in the 1845 is the same, close enough for this to apply, or completely different. but at least there's an indication that we've got the wrong oil cooler and that there may be a factory solution to our overheating problems.

i'll post again if/when i get a drawing (the one thing i'm worried about is clearances or i'd just go ahead and order the dang thing).
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler #2  
When I first had my overheating problem on the 1845, Terry told me there was an Ag kit, and that they were trying to get one. He didn't at the time know what it consisted of. I asked a few times thereafter, and he said that they'd never been able to get one. I haven't asked for some years, so maybe they finally did get one to test, but I haven't heard.
Next week I hope to visit the plant and will try to remember to ask.
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler #3  
MikeOConnor said:
hi gang,

I'm following up on a comment made in a post about how bad the 18xx's are for overheating.

it turns out that there is indeed an "Ag oil cooler" that can be ordered from Deutz that may be what we're looking for. i'm still researching and hope to have a drawing that i'll post to this thread when i get it.

here's the info that i needed to know about my machine in order to break the code at my local Deutz distributor. on my 1850 the Motor-Type is F4L 1011 F. talking to the local guy, that means the part number of the oil cooler on my engine is 4270522, but that's been replaced twice and the newest version of that part is 4272660 (so they may be fixing our problem on the standard engine).

the part number for the Ag oil cooler is 4272657 on my engine. the local guys quoted that at $1037, and said that there aren't any in inventory in the US.

i don't know if the engine in the 1845 is the same, close enough for this to apply, or completely different. but at least there's an indication that we've got the wrong oil cooler and that there may be a factory solution to our overheating problems.

i'll post again if/when i get a drawing (the one thing i'm worried about is clearances or i'd just go ahead and order the dang thing).


Are you guys really going to drop that kind money on an oil cooler There are other alternative's out there and they don't cost those kinds of bucks. Are you sure it's due to the oil heating, up or just poor air cooling. Has any one put temperature gages in the oil system to see when, how and how much, and where the oil is heating up. Is it in the cylinder head area, or sump, etc? If that is a problem for more than a few of those machines, PT should take care of that problem. Just my opinion.
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler
  • Thread Starter
#4  
i got the sense (from the local distributor) that Powertrac may have specified the wrong engine for these machines. the first time i contacted them, the parts guy went to the sales guy who told the parts guy "your customer's got to redirect the airflow away from the machine -- too much dust is getting into it"

i left a voicemail message for the sales guy explaining that there really is no way to redirect the dust away from the engine and that's when he finally went to the catalog and found the ag kit. the feeling i got from the interactions so far is that the Deutz lads were a little startled to find out that one of these engines is out there running around in dusty places...

like i said, i'm waiting for more info (Charlie's post makes me nervous). i'm hopeful that the drawing will show air-circulation ports that are a lot bigger than the ones that are on there now. another worry is that the durn thing is so big that it won't fit inside the engine compartment. i'm pretty sure that Terry hasn't ever seen one of these things -- he just pointed me at Deutz and let me fend for myself. Charlie, if you happen to run into the President of the company while you're out there, you might start laying the groundwork for a recall. :)
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler #5  
Mike, thanks for sharing that part number.

Something has to be done. I'd hate to drop another $1,000.00 on it, and it still heat!

I called Terry a few days back who was going to get the info on the ag cooler, but I haven't heard back yet.

Only bush hogging over heats the machine, and cleaning out the oil cooler IS NOT A FIX, we've cleaned it out only to have it over heat within 2 hours of easy cutting.

We all need to get together and get this problem fixed. I'm trying to contact everyone I can who I find out owns one of these things.

My lively hood depends on my equipment!!!! When it overheats, production stops, and my operator is stopped dead in his tracks, not to mention it takes useful life away from the machine.

Now, why does it never over heat unless bushhogging?

Is it the engine oil cooler?
The hydro cooler?

Air flow?

The bush hog is too much for it?

I'm located in central VA, my cell is 434-941-2663. If anyone has any leads please contact me. The machine really does too good of a job to get rid of, if not I would have been done sold it long ago.
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler #6  
J_J said:
Are you guys really going to drop that kind money on an oil cooler There are other alternative's out there and they don't cost those kinds of bucks. Are you sure it's due to the oil heating, up or just poor air cooling. Has any one put temperature gages in the oil system to see when, how and how much, and where the oil is heating up. Is it in the cylinder head area, or sump, etc? If that is a problem for more than a few of those machines, PT should take care of that problem. Just my opinion.


On my machine, the temp hand rides 3/4 of the way to pegged needle (around 240 I think if I remember right). After mowing, light or heavy growth with the six blade bush hog, the needle will float on up and the audable alarm starts going off. This usually occurs if the outside temp is 75 degrees or higher....really hot days, we don't even bother with it.

I asked a Deutz mechanic about an extra cooler, he said it would mess up oil pressure and would not work. $1,000.00 is too much to drop on it, but now I have a $36,000 machine which can't do its job.

I've been around skid steers and other equip, and never seen anything like this.

PT should take care of it, but they WILL NOT EVEN ADMIT THEY HAVE A PROBLEM, let alone try to do anything to solve the problem, why should they care , they already have their money.


I agree with the staetmnet made that the engine is not suited for this application, thats hiting the nail on the head.

I can deal with alll the other problems, if we could just get the overheating fixed. I did not know I had to become a diesel mechanic when buying this thing!

Its too early in the morning for my blood pressure to get this high!!!

ANY ONE HAVE TERRY"S EMAIL, they need to see these threads.
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler
  • Thread Starter
#7  
i'm happy to be the guinea pig to see whether this fixes the overheating problem -- at this time of the year, i can recreate the problem in a heartbeat. i was sooo glad to have the Kubota to fall back on. here's a link to Marcie's recent journal post -- the first picture shows the 'Bota at work on a 15 acre field. took about 4 hours to do that.

http://prairie.haven.com/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=383

i agree. i only overheat when mowing (actually, bush-hogging on hills works fine for me, it's large-scale field mowing that kills it). so it may be that the mower *is* too much for the machine. i had a similar experience when i bought the 'Bota -- i bought a smaller one with that 7-foot wide flail mower (which you can't see in the picture -- too far away). the ratings were all ok, but i pegged the temp meter on the first day. those lads just took the machine (with a big 3 hours on it) back, called it a "rental" and applied my payment to the M6800. the 'Bota runs all day in 100 degree heat, with the A/C turned all the way up, mowing grass that would make the PT fall over and die and never budges off the "correct" temp.

i'm ok spending $1000 to fix the problem -- like others, i like the machine too much to give up on it. it would be interesting to see how many of us are interested in this, partly to help get PT's attention, and partly because i bet we could get a better price if we placed one order for 5-10 of these things and hit some kind of volume-discount layer. so all you other 18xx owners, chime in on this thread so we can see how big our gang is.

like it said, i'm ok buying one and being the test-case.

haven't heard back from Deutz though... Charlie's comment is still making me nervous.
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler #8  
AltavistaLawn said:
On my machine, the temp hand rides 3/4 of the way to pegged needle (around 240 I think if I remember right). After mowing, light or heavy growth with the six blade bush hog, the needle will float on up and the audable alarm starts going off. This usually occurs if the outside temp is 75 degrees or higher....really hot days, we don't even bother with it.

I asked a Dietz mechanic about an extra cooler, he said it would mess up oil pressure and would not work. $1,000.00 is too much to drop on it, but now I have a $36,000 machine which can't do its job.

I've been around skid steers and other equip, and never seen anything like this.

PT should take care of it, but they WILL NOT EVEN ADMIT THEY HAVE A PROBLEM, let alone try to do anything to solve the problem, why should they care , they already have their money.


I agree with the staetmnet made that the engine is not suited for this application, thats hiting the nail on the head.

I can deal with alll the other problems, if we could just get the overheating fixed. I did not know I had to become a diesel mechanic when buying this thing!

Its too early in the morning for my blood pressure to get this high!!!

ANY ONE HAVE TERRY"S EMAIL, they need to see these threads.


What kind of temp is your gage reading? Is it cylinder head temp, or oil sump temp, or hydraulic temp. Is there more than one temp sensor? Your bush hog is probably taking a good bit of your available HP. Have you tried running the machine for 30 min with no load in 85 to 95 degrees? You night try and figure how much HP to run the the hydraulic pump or pumps and see how much HP is left over. They have a good hydraulic calculator in the Surplus Hydraulics web site. If they have sold around a 100 of the 1850's, and only 3 have had any problem, they would probably considder that a non issue, and leave you with the problem.

I have what I believe is a one of a kind experimental model with my early 90's PT-1445 with gas engine, water cooled , three hydraulic pumps. and three point attachment hook up. It does run rather nice, and much quieter than a diesel. From the outside, it looks just like all the red machines. They do, and will continue to change things, and the price continues going up.
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler #9  
AltavistaLawn said:
Only bush hogging over heats the machine, and cleaning out the oil cooler IS NOT A FIX, we've cleaned it out only to have it over heat within 2 hours of easy cutting.

Now, why does it never over heat unless bushhogging?

Is it the engine oil cooler?
The hydro cooler?

Air flow?

The bush hog is too much for it?

.

I was told by Scott (many years ago) that the heaviest load is during mowing. My guess is that it tends to be a continuous load, unlike many of the other uses. Also mowing is usually done in warm to hot weather.

Could you add an auxiliary electric fan with directed air flow? I sure hope PT corrects this. We all need to give them a hard time if they don't.
 
   / 1850 (maybe 1845 too) - Replacement oil cooler
  • Thread Starter
#10  
i got through the sales guy at the local distributorship this morning and he forwarded me an email from an engineer at Deutz, and a drawing. since the drawing's a PDF, here's a link to it (i don't thing PDFs work as attachments)

http://www.haven.com/22009602.pdf

and here's what the engineer said;

The sub assembly number is correct for the F4L1011F - you can see it on the attached drawing 2200-9602. The AG cooler is taller that the standard one so you will need to check if the machine has any kind of duct work on the top of the engine or anything else that may interfere with the taller cooler.

This cooler has a wider fin spacing to allow more debris to pass through, it is taller in order to add surface area to maintain the same cooling capacity as the standard one. Note that this is not a cure-all, it can still clog up if there is too much debris allowed into the blower.
i can't quite make sense out of the drawing -- it doesn't quite look like the same part. but i'm at The Other House and can't run out and look at the PT. if somebody could do some measurements on theirs to confirm that this is the right part, t'would be great (note -- this is a sub assembly drawing, and that's part of what's got me confused).

the "duct" he's talking about is that flat metal plate that bolts on the top side of the cooling fins. Charlie takes this off when he cleans his, i don't (too lazy and i don't have the wrench needed to remove those goofy star-shaped bolt-heads).

another thing that caught my eye is the engineer talking about "debris allowed into the blower". we ain't got no steenking blower, ours is passively cooled. so it may be that there's a blower/filter that we could add to force more air through these fins too. or, it may be that i've got the wrong part here. i'm gonna call the (smarter) parts guy back at the distributor. i may cheat and call the engineer directly, although i'm holding that card in reserve.
 
 
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