Newbie here!

[ddonnell]

Hello everyone,

My name is Dave and I am new to your forum. I happened to be noodling around a week or so ago and happened across the PT forum and immediately became intrigued by these machines. I apologize for the length of this first post but I have a number of questions that I'm sure you all could shed some light on. I've read many of the other threads here and I apologize if I'm asking some of the same questions previously asked and answered but here goes anyway.

A little background to start with. I own about 8 acres of flat (and I do mean flat) land in Ohio. Of that, I finish mow about 3 acres and the rest is wooded. The woods is full of undergrowth that I have always threatened to clear out so as to have more of a "park" setting. My wife has show dogs so I also maintain a 60' x 60' "kennel corral" of #9 crushed stone (this involves some periodic grading and addition of stone). And then there is the 1/4 mile paved drive that requires snow removal. Other than this, just the normal (or maybe abnormal) "what can I do with my tractor today?" kind of projects.

I presently have an '05 Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 hydro subcompact with the 27 horse B&S 3 cylinder diesel engine, 3pt., 540PTO. I have the 60" finish mower deck, the 500# rated FEL with 48" bucket, a Curtis 5' loader mounted hydraulic snow plow, 48" 3pt. tiller, and turbo vac leaf collection system. Also a tow behind broadcast spreader, aerator drop seeder-spreader and a few other odds and ends.

I love this machine and it has been great for the things I have done to this point. The FEL gets a little weak when fully loaded toward the top of its lift height, a problem that has garnered more than a few complaints from other Legacy owners, but other than that, no real complaints - just fun. Enter PT.

These machines look like the cat's meow! The quick attach implement system couldn't be cooler (my snow plow still requires de-pinning the bucket and re-pinning the plow with the associated lining up etc.). I have to admit that esthetically I liked the looks of the Simplicity better but the Healy "bug-eyed Sprite" look of the PT is neat in its own way. So here is my list of questions:

1. What size PT? I feel like the 425 would be the right size rather than the 1430 but would I be sacrificing overall power going to the 425 from the Legacy? Does the 425 lift its 800#s to full height with ease and are the cycle times for lift, tilt and curl acceptable? Any problems with the gas engine? I love the liquid cooled diesel I have now and really wish it was offered on the 425, but that sounds like a trade-off I'd have to live with. I've also read some complaints about oil cooling on their bigger machines. Is this a problem with the 425? General reliability issues? (I'm not a complete doofus when it comes to working on machines but this total hydraulic setup would be new to me)

2. Simplicity is known for it's mowing quality of cut and the full width rear roller produces a beautiful striped result. Your opinions on the 60" PT finish mower? Would a rear towed "striping roller" be necessary for the striped look? Also, with all the trees, leaves are a problem in the fall. Has anyone tinkered with a front end leaf collection system? I do need to mow around a number of trees. With the 425 turning radius and articulation is there much back and forth to mow around things and will I get hung up around trees like some of the pictures I've seen? I wouldn't expect ZTR performance (which I've had in the past), but the Simplicity with its hydro does a pretty quick job around trees, etc..

3. Snow removal. I'm used to the plow and have never used a mounted snowblower. Does the snowblower really throw the snow a distance? As I said, hills are not a problem, but are there any traction issues on pavement with either the plow or snowblower? I would opt for the turf tires on a PT and the weight of the machine is comparable to my Legacy but again your experiencies would be enlightening.

4. With the mini-hoe, it sounds like you have to use a second lever beyond the joy stick to control it. Is this awkward and does the hoe do a pretty good job within its design capabilities?

5. What type of bucket? The 4-in-1 sounds neat but I've never used one. Kristie at PT says it is pretty stout but would I sacrifice anything over the standard LMB?

6. Does anyone have experience with PT's front mount broadcast spreader? Reaching the controls on my tow-behind would obviously not be possible and I absolutely need a broadcast spreader. Your input please.

7. Are there any problems in dealing with Power-trac after the sale? I realize that you are kind of on your own with maintainence etc. but I get great service from my Simplicity dealer and wouldn't want the "run around" treatment from PT should I decide to switch.

8. Lastly, your ideas/opinions on what attachments to buy given this synopsis of my current situation and anything else you might want to add.

Again, I apologize for the length of this narrative, but I'm trying to gather as much info. as I can. Certainly, a trip to Tazewell would be in my future should I pursue this further, but your input would factor into the decision to abandon the Legacy in favor of the PT. Thanks and happy holidays.

P.S. Are there any guages on a 425, particularly a fuel guage?

 

[Thomas]

Welcome Dave.
Porch light always on here at TBN,and chime right on it when you wish.

 

[ddonnell]

Me again,

One thing I forgot to ask is whether the 422 would/should be an option I should consider. Is the 425's extra 3 engine hp and 8" lift capability worth the $2,500.00 difference in price? I'm guessing that there might be more than these two differences between the two machines.

 

[BobRip]

The 425 has 50% more wheel motor torque. For my purposes this is worth the money. With flat land it is not as important but it does help with moving dirt. I have 10 acres and find the 422 very adequate, but I will probably replace it with the 425 for the extra wheel motor torque in a few years. I have a lot of ruts and mud and ocassionaly have to work the PT left and right to get out of a rut or out of the swampy land. I got a CUT stuck also, so the swamp can be pretty rough on any vehicle. About where are you located? How much snow do you get.
I don't have the finish mower so cannot comment on it. The manueverabilty of the PT is far superior to a conventional tractor or riding mower.

PT is very helpful with diagnostics over the phone. They will stay on with you as long as you want. They are the experts on their machines. Compared to the poor service you usually get over the phone (the person knows only what the computer in front of them can tell them) they are fantastic. It is a pleasure to speak to the factory expert and not someone just trained by someone three levels removed from the factory expert.
Repairs tend to be simple: Hose replacements which you can get from any hydraulic shop or NAPA; bolt on motors which you send back for repair if needed, and small engine repair items. If you can do this you can handle almost all of the PT repairs. I don't generally recommend this machine to someone who does not work on their own vehicle, unless there is a good local shop who is willing to repair it.

As far as lift height goes, the 800 pounds requires quite a bit of weight on the back. I have never tried to lift 800 pounds more than a few inches off the ground. When I lifted 814 pounds of stone, I had someone stand on the back bumper.

There are no guages on the 425, the fuel tank is translucent so you can lift the back and check level that way.

PT seems to get most part to the owner in a few days.
I would highly recommend the 425 for your lot. It might be good to find a local owner and visit them for a test drive. Also drive one at Power Trac.

I like the 4 in 1. One of the little talked about advantages is being able to load it going forward or backward. This way you can always load going down hill, and big advantage with the 422. I have to go to supper now.

I also have the grappling bucket and it will pick up a huge amount of brush. People argue over getting it or the 4 in 1, I say get both.

Edit: Back from supper - The minihoe does a good job and is not awkward to use. Yes there is an extra lever, but I have no problems. I have replaced the standard 8 inch bucket with a 12 inch and find that much more useful for my use of loose mud and loose gravel. I still have the 8 inch and can switch back in a few minutes.

The limited snow removal has been pretty easy. We have not had a lot of snow since I got the PT. I have the blade. Clint Blake clears his neighborhood with it and seems very pleased. Snow is actually easy to move compared to dirt, but others with more snow should chime in here.

I have the LMT, but hardly ever use it since the 4 in 1 is easier to load.

You should consider the rought cut mower. It will be a great asset to clear the woods. I use it on mine to get that park like affect. It will cut 1 inch trees pretty easily. Brush is a piece of cagke. There are a few easy modifications you should make on it. (Extra bolts with rubber stops).

 

[ddonnell]

BobRip,

Thanks for your insights. I've been thinking that the 425 would be the machine for me all along and would consider the 422 only if there was minimal difference between the two. 50% more wheel torque is significant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sensing that you feel the 425 would be adequate for my needs and that the 1430 would be overkill. If it will do pretty much what my Legacy XL has done power wise, I'd be more than happy. Certainly the quick hitch setup of Power Trac will run circles around a conventional CUT with a 3pt., and I'd rather spend the extra $6000 on implements and a new welder than on horsepower and size I really don't need.

If the 60" finish mower does a pretty good job I believe that the PT would be a good fit for me. I enjoy tinkering with machinery and it sounds like I could handle the normal maintainance. I might have to build another building to house all the attachments though. I guess the mini-hoe would get used right from the start!

Now I just have to pull the trigger on parting with Simplicity orange and going to PT green. Thanks.

 

[MuncyBob]

I have the smaller 422 and mowing deck. The cut from the finish mower is good. I was very happy with it after mowing with a Farmall and belly mower(which is now only used on pasture cutting). The PT does a good job of mulching the grass clippings and the tires of the PT do give the grass a striped look. I maintain about 2 1/2 acres of lawn with ease. The finish mower is not suitable for high grass areas as a lot of the debris gets caught between the frame and inside left wheel which could result in a broken inner valve stem. With flat land you could probably do with a 422 but if you have the $$ why not get the 425 for the additional torque, lift and HP?

 

[ddonnell]

Farmall 140

Thanks for the reply. I read somewhere else in the forum about this grass piling up around the wheel. Are you talking about the left front wheel of the PT itself or the mower deck? I'm assuming that the deck is rear discharge so is this grass buildup a function of the close proximity of the rear of the deck to the front of the PT? Also, I can't seem to find a measurement of the ground clearance of the 425 which I'm guessing could be a contributing factor to this problem. Would larger diameter tires possibly help this and would/could larger tires create other problems? And finally, is the cut height set by adjusting the deck wheels. If so what are the incremental levels of adjustment? With my Legacy, I have electric lift with infinite height adjustment throughout its entire range.

I mow my new meadow(2 acres of turf-type tall fescue) at least weekly or as needed. I probably take off at most, an inch at a time, and I try to wait for it to be dry. Under these conditions would you expect this buildup of grass clippings to be a problem?

To achieve this striped look that I like with my Legacy, I essentially make a pass, stop at the end, turn around, and then make the next pass adjacent to the first but in the opposite direction. With my tractor, this turn around has become second nature with the 2 pedal hydro. How easy is this to do with the articulating and longer PT(after the learning curve of course)?

As far as overall power to mow, run attatchments etc., do you all think that I would be losing much or anything going to the 425PT from the Simplicity? The 4x4 Legacy has the 27 horse diesel and a rated PTOhp of 18 and except for being a little weak at the top of the loader lift cycle, it meets my needs easily.

One last question. BobRip, in your reply you addressed my question about the loader lift capacity at its full 800# rating. I appreciate that the PT could get a little light in the rear end with that much weight, but with the appropriate counter weight on the back, do you think that the loader will actually lift the 800# more than a few inches? And without any rear weight, could I expect any problems lifting a full 4-in-1 bucket of, let's say, sand or gravel throughout the entire lift range? I do have to add crushed stone in the kennel area from time to time as well as move dirt for landscaping etc.. I am also a little fuzzy about this loading the 4-in-1 bucket backwards or forwards. Would you elaborate on this a little for me?

Thanks to all for the information. Keep it coming.

 

[MossRoad]

Hello everyone,

My name is Dave and I am new to your forum. I happened to be noodling around a week or so ago and happened across the PT forum and immediately became intrigued by these machines. I apologize for the length of this first post but I have a number of questions that I'm sure you all could shed some light on. I've read many of the other threads here and I apologize if I'm asking some of the same questions previously asked and answered but here goes anyway.

A little background to start with. I own about 8 acres of flat (and I do mean flat) land in Ohio. Of that, I finish mow about 3 acres and the rest is wooded. The woods is full of undergrowth that I have always threatened to clear out so as to have more of a "park" setting. My wife has show dogs so I also maintain a 60' x 60' "kennel corral" of #9 crushed stone (this involves some periodic grading and addition of stone). And then there is the 1/4 mile paved drive that requires snow removal. Other than this, just the normal (or maybe abnormal) "what can I do with my tractor today?" kind of projects.

I presently have an '05 Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 hydro subcompact with the 27 horse B&S 3 cylinder diesel engine, 3pt., 540PTO. I have the 60" finish mower deck, the 500# rated FEL with 48" bucket, a Curtis 5' loader mounted hydraulic snow plow, 48" 3pt. tiller, and turbo vac leaf collection system. Also a tow behind broadcast spreader, aerator drop seeder-spreader and a few other odds and ends.

I love this machine and it has been great for the things I have done to this point. The FEL gets a little weak when fully loaded toward the top of its lift height, a problem that has garnered more than a few complaints from other Legacy owners, but other than that, no real complaints - just fun. Enter PT.

These machines look like the cat's meow! The quick attach implement system couldn't be cooler (my snow plow still requires de-pinning the bucket and re-pinning the plow with the associated lining up etc.). I have to admit that esthetically I liked the looks of the Simplicity better but the Healy "bug-eyed Sprite" look of the PT is neat in its own way. So here is my list of questions:

1. What size PT? I feel like the 425 would be the right size rather than the 1430 but would I be sacrificing overall power going to the 425 from the Legacy? Does the 425 lift its 800#s to full height with ease and are the cycle times for lift, tilt and curl acceptable? Any problems with the gas engine? I love the liquid cooled diesel I have now and really wish it was offered on the 425, but that sounds like a trade-off I'd have to live with. I've also read some complaints about oil cooling on their bigger machines. Is this a problem with the 425? General reliability issues? (I'm not a complete doofus when it comes to working on machines but this total hydraulic setup would be new to me)

2. Simplicity is known for it's mowing quality of cut and the full width rear roller produces a beautiful striped result. Your opinions on the 60" PT finish mower? Would a rear towed "striping roller" be necessary for the striped look? Also, with all the trees, leaves are a problem in the fall. Has anyone tinkered with a front end leaf collection system? I do need to mow around a number of trees. With the 425 turning radius and articulation is there much back and forth to mow around things and will I get hung up around trees like some of the pictures I've seen? I wouldn't expect ZTR performance (which I've had in the past), but the Simplicity with its hydro does a pretty quick job around trees, etc..

3. Snow removal. I'm used to the plow and have never used a mounted snowblower. Does the snowblower really throw the snow a distance? As I said, hills are not a problem, but are there any traction issues on pavement with either the plow or snowblower? I would opt for the turf tires on a PT and the weight of the machine is comparable to my Legacy but again your experiencies would be enlightening.

4. With the mini-hoe, it sounds like you have to use a second lever beyond the joy stick to control it. Is this awkward and does the hoe do a pretty good job within its design capabilities?

5. What type of bucket? The 4-in-1 sounds neat but I've never used one. Kristie at PT says it is pretty stout but would I sacrifice anything over the standard LMB?

6. Does anyone have experience with PT's front mount broadcast spreader? Reaching the controls on my tow-behind would obviously not be possible and I absolutely need a broadcast spreader. Your input please.

7. Are there any problems in dealing with Power-trac after the sale? I realize that you are kind of on your own with maintainence etc. but I get great service from my Simplicity dealer and wouldn't want the "run around" treatment from PT should I decide to switch.

8. Lastly, your ideas/opinions on what attachments to buy given this synopsis of my current situation and anything else you might want to add.

Again, I apologize for the length of this narrative, but I'm trying to gather as much info. as I can. Certainly, a trip to Tazewell would be in my future should I pursue this further, but your input would factor into the decision to abandon the Legacy in favor of the PT. Thanks and happy holidays.

P.S. Are there any guages on a 425, particularly a fuel guage?

First off, Welcome to TBN!

I'll try to address a few of your questions the best I can related to my experiences with our 2001 PT425.

LAWN CARE

It sounds like you have a lot invested in your Simplicity and it sounds like a very nice machine. I have a late 60s Simplicity, and it still gives a great cut. I do not think my PT gives as good a quality cut to my lawn as my Simplicity. Nothing gives as good a quality cut to a lawn as a Simplicity, in my opinion. They are one of the finest lawn machines out there.

With that said, I find the quality of the cut on my lawn to be very good with the PT for my type of lawn. It is mixed fescue and not a show place. I'd say it does 90-95% as good as our Simplicity. However, the PT finish mower is rear discharge and there is no provision for a bagger or vacuum cart. So if that is important to you, as in the fall with leaf pickup, too, stay with the Simplicity. Also, the PT finish mower will leave a small windrow of grass clippings on the right side of the deck. This can be minimized by adjusting your mowing pattern to grab the windrow on the next pass with the left side of the deck. While this works great to eliminate the windrow, it makes it tough to do a nice stiping pattern on one pass, something the Simplicity excells at.

SNOW REMOVAL

I have the 60" PT snow blade and it works great with turf tires on pavement. Outstanding traction and maneuverability with the ability to stack snow 6' high with ease. I have no experience with their blower. Sorry.

BROADCAST DPREADER

I keep my old Simplicity for that chore alone( and taking the kids on tiny hay rides in a little cart ). I have no experience with the PT spreader.

BUCKETS

I have both the large material bucket and the smaller rock bucket with teeth. The LMB is my workhorse. It does everything and is very tough for a 'light' bucket. Holds gobs of material and makes very quick work of spreading things like gravel, sand and mulch. This is the function the PT excells at. FEL work is child's play on a PT and nothing else comes close for the size and money. It is basically a mini version of a huge wheeled loader. The small bucket with teeth is stout and tough. I use it mainly for popping stumps or loading large rocks over baseball size. The teeth help the bucket enter the pile easier. Some folks have bought aftermarket, bolt on tooth bars for the large material bucket and really praise them. You may want to consider that option over the small bucket with factory teeth.

GUAGES

Guages? We don't need no stinkin' guages!

Well, O.K. I have an hour meter. Does that count? My fuel tank is clear plastic and mounted behind the seat. All I have to do is turn the unit left or right and I can see the fuel level under one of my armpits( that sounds funny). Don't know about the current unit.

QUICK ATTACH and FRONT MOUNTED IMPLEMENTS

This feature alone just about sold me on the PT. I spent about 10 years on a huge tractor/loader with 3PT hitch. I dreaded changing implements and found excuses not to. Straining my neck to keep an eye on the mower or box blade got old. Implements belong out front where you can keep an eye on them. The PT quick attach seems to be the best on the market for small machines. Have you seen my videos of the quick attach in action (and other PT videos) on my website? If not, click on my little animated PT icon in my signature and that will take you to my webpage. Check them out.

MY CONCLUSIONS

Overall, I would say your Simplicty sounds like a fine unit. You already have lots of implements, are used to the tractor, and know what it is like to have dealer support for repairs. Switching to a PT425 would be sort of a latteral move, or even a downgrade for the lawn cutting and vacuum aspects of your needs. What kind of a bath would you take on resale of the Simplicity? Is it worth it for a latteral move? You would gain in areas of FEL work and time saved in switching implements. But isn't your primary function mowing? Consider these things carefully and definately find a way to compare your Simplicity apples to PT apples with hands-on-experience! That is the only way to make up your mind.

Hope this helps.

 

[KentT]

I'm a huge Simplicity fan -- I started and run the Simple trACtors site, for example -- but IMO there's only one place where the Simplicity will clearly out-perform the PT-425, and that is finish mowing. I run a couple of old Simplicities, but when it came time to do serious work in the woods, even as a "rabid" Simplicity fan, I first tried a small Kubota, then sold it to buy a used PT-425... I think I can speak to both machines pretty well.

IMO, there simply (no pun intended) is no better finish mower deck than the deep Simplicity deck with its full-width rollers, and it's free-floating, ground-following design. It will give those great looking stripes if you take the time to do so (I'd don't personally) and the overall cut compares VERY well with any commercial ZTR on the market -- it's just a bit slower in use due to less maneuverability and ground speed than a ZTR. It will make an "average lawn" look like it has been professionally done and then maintained...

If you're pulling ground engaging implements such as a "moldboard turning plow" -- not likely for most small property owners -- the Simplicity will also outperform the PT-425, due to its ability to put more power (torque) to the ground. Tractors such as the Legacy are designed to pull, while machines like the PT are designed to pick up, carry, and precisely place their tools. They're different by design... It's very hard to describe how different PTs are in use, since most people have no frame of reference to compare. In truth, they likely compare better to a skidsteer than a traditional garden or compact tractor.

The PT will outperform the Legacy in about any other venue. It will lift more in its bucket, and it is so much more maneuverable that it seems to do twice the amount of work in the same amount of time. You can swap implements in seconds, so you find yourself changing implements frequently during one work session, just to use the best tool for whatever task you have... Even though the Simplicity loader may be the best/easiest one out there to take on and off, you don't have the full range of implements to use in its place like you do with the PT. Further, the Simplicity deck, though it comes off easy is so heavy to get out from under the tractor and then to put it back on, that I doubt you find yourself removing it frequently. In comparison, I may swap implements a half dozen times or more in a half-day's work with the PT.

I have the following implements for my PT-425: 60" finish mower that doesn't get used, 48" rough-cut mower (i.e. bush hog) that performs incredibly well, LM bucket, rock/dirt bucket with teeth, grapple bucket, 60" aftermarket landscaping rake, mini-hoe with an aftermarket thumb installed, and a 1-ton hydraulic dump cart. I bought the cart to not only haul things in, but most importantly, haul a bunch of different implements to the work site -- because I use a bunch of different implements frequently...

There are 3 implements that I would strongly suggest you consider for working in your woods: grapple bucket, rough-cut mower, and mini-hoe with a thumb on it. You can then create and maintain the "park-like" setting you describe...

If interested, send me a PM or email, and I can steer you to quite a few pictures of my PT-425 working in the woods...

My 2 cents, your mileage may vary....

 

[woodlandfarms]

I just saw a nice 300hr 425 for sale on ebay... Did not catch the price like an idiot...

Carl