PT 1430 Hydraulic Trouble

[menchhofer]

My 1430 has been over the past few months showing symptoms of a problem due to the fact it sometimes slows to a crawl while backing up.

I finally went to hydraulic shop and after discussing the problem with the owner, found out my wheels motors, pump and tram (or transmission) will need to be rebuilt due to the metal/other material floating in my hydraulic oil tank. At least for now this is what he believes is going on.

If I take all the motors, pump and trans off the machine and take them to the shop, the bill should be less than $1400.00 or so. He also questioned the NAPA filter I had on the line indicating it could be part of the problem for it is probably not a suction filter. He also does not like the use of motor oil as the hydraulic fluid.

I do not the time to do this now, so I will have to postpone the work until later, but is a bummer as the machine only has about 450 hours on it.

 

[BobRip]

My 1430 has been over the past few months showing symptoms of a problem due to the fact it sometimes slows to a crawl while backing up.

I finally went to hydraulic shop and after discussing the problem with the owner, found out my wheels motors, pump and tram (or transmission) will need to be rebuilt due to the metal/other material floating in my hydraulic oil tank. At least for now this is what he believes is going on.

If I take all the motors, pump and trans off the machine and take them to the shop, the bill should be less than $1400.00 or so. He also questioned the NAPA filter I had on the line indicating it could be part of the problem for it is probably not a suction filter. He also does not like the use of motor oil as the hydraulic fluid.

I do not the time to do this now, so I will have to postpone the work until later, but is a bummer as the machine only has about 450 hours on it.

Have you been changing the filter every 50 hours. It is well known that this is not a suction filter, but by changing it every 50 hours it should work OK.
I would call up Power Trac and discuss this with them. To rebuild all of these components seems excessive.

 

[BobRip]

As far as using motor oil, see the attached link. The summary is that it's not the best, but OK.

By the way, I am sorry for your troubles. Hopefully the people here can help you resolve it at a reasonable price.

 

[menchhofer]

Filter has been replace every 50 hours..sometimes sooner.

 

[BobRip]

That's good. Give PT a call tomorrow. Their cost to rebuild motors are pretty reasonable. I don't know about the pump.

 

[RegL]

My 1430 has been over the past few months showing symptoms of a problem due to the fact it sometimes slows to a crawl while backing up.

I finally went to hydraulic shop and after discussing the problem with the owner, found out my wheels motors, pump and tram (or transmission) will need to be rebuilt due to the metal/other material floating in my hydraulic oil tank. At least for now this is what he believes is going on.

If I take all the motors, pump and trans off the machine and take them to the shop, the bill should be less than $1400.00 or so. He also questioned the NAPA filter I had on the line indicating it could be part of the problem for it is probably not a suction filter. He also does not like the use of motor oil as the hydraulic fluid.

I do not the time to do this now, so I will have to postpone the work until later, but is a bummer as the machine only has about 450 hours on it.

The first thing I would do is never to go back to that shop. If all the pumps and motors were bad your symptoms would be worse than ( sometimes it slows to a crawl in reverse.). I would look for something mechanical, like the hydro-back sticking. As far as metal in the hydraulic tank, if you go back in the posts, you should find that some PT's came from the factory that way.

 

[KentT]

I tend to agree with RegL...

If there is a significant difference in how the machine trams forward versus reverse, the problem is likely in the control linkage not in the pump or wheel motors. The pump is turning the same way always, and the motors should be as efficient in reverse as they are going forward -- the only small difference would be traction -- not speed or power. If there is a significant difference in speed or power, it is because the flow is not being "reversed" by the controls -- i.e. most likely a control linkage issue.

My old PT uses a cable, but I'd assume your newer machine uses the hydroback to control it... I'd eliminate that as a problem before I started looking elsewhere. If it isn't the control, it is likely in the swash plate in the hyrdrostatic pump -- where the plate position changes to reverse the flow out of a pump turning in a constant direction -- once again, not the wheel motors. IMO, if you can't resolve it, call Terry at PT before you start removing anything.

This link may give you a better understanding of how the speed (i.e. volume of flow) and direction is controlled in a hydrostatic pump.

Page 3

There's a few other pages in this introductary hydraulics training manual from Simplicity that address other hydraulic issues/systems. Use the >> links in the red bar to go back to the main page, similar to how you navigate through the forums here...

 

[menchhofer]

My first thought on the reverse issue was possibly the hydroback cable out of adjustment, but I changed that about a year ago and all was fine until this problem of slowing while backing. Forward movement seems to be a bit slower also at times.

One thing I have noticed is the treadle bar seems to act stiffer than it did before. I have checked the treadle linkage and everything looks normal and greased.

The metal I was referring to was "floaties" in the tank giving the fluid the appearance of being dirty and when the sunshine lit up the inside of the tank, they did kind of sparkle. I did not notice this before as when I check the fluid, it looks fine on the dipstick. There is something in the hydraulic fluid. The shop owner said it is debris off the plates in the motors and pump.

I think I am going to drain the system and add new hydraulic fluid to see if it helps at all.

Thanks for everyone's advise and thoughts.

 

[BobRip]

My first thought on the reverse issue was possibly the hydroback cable out of adjustment, but I changed that about a year ago and all was fine until this problem of slowing while backing. Forward movement seems to be a bit slower also at times.

One thing I have noticed is the treadle bar seems to act stiffer than it did before. I have checked the treadle linkage and everything looks normal and greased.

The metal I was referring to was "floaties" in the tank giving the fluid the appearance of being dirty and when the sunshine lit up the inside of the tank, they did kind of sparkle. I did not notice this before as when I check the fluid, it looks fine on the dipstick. There is something in the hydraulic fluid. The shop owner said it is debris off the plates in the motors and pump.

I think I am going to drain the system and add new hydraulic fluid to see if it helps at all.

Thanks for everyone's advise and thoughts.

What did Terry say. You did call him, right?

 

[J_J]

I tend to agree with RegL...

If there is a significant difference in how the machine trams forward versus reverse, the problem is likely in the control linkage not in the pump or wheel motors. The pump is turning the same way always, and the motors should be as efficient in reverse as they are going forward -- the only small difference would be traction -- not speed or power. If there is a significant difference in speed or power, it is because the flow is not being "reversed" by the controls -- i.e. most likely a control linkage issue.

My old PT uses a cable, but I'd assume your newer machine uses the hydro back to control it... I'd eliminate that as a problem before I started looking elsewhere. If it isn't the control, it is likely in the swash plate in the hyrdrostatic pump -- where the plate position changes to reverse the flow out of a pump turning in a constant direction -- once again, not the wheel motors. IMO, if you can't resolve it, call Terry at PT before you start removing anything.

This link may give you a better understanding of how the speed (i.e. volume of flow) and direction is controlled in a hydrostatic pump.

Page 3

There's a few other pages in this introductary hydraulics training manual from Simplicity that address other hydraulic issues/systems. Use the >> links in the red bar to go back to the main page, similar to how you navigate through the forums here...

Menchhofer

To test the Hydro-back, if that is what you have, set 4 cement blocks or something similar to raise the machine off the ground. Raise the hood, and start the engine. Have someone activate the treadles forward ad reverse, and see if the Hydro-back is shifting equally or very little either way. On my 1445, I can disconnect the Hydro-back, and activate the shifter by hand. On the subject of fluid, I would have someone like maybe Napa send off a sample of your hydraulic fluid, and have it analyzed. I don't think it is very expensive. If you do get a negative report back, The oil change will only be a temporary fix. An analogy would be opening a transmission on an automobile, and seeing small silver like particles, which would indicate that the converter or other parts are coming apart.

Every one of you should be getting on Power Trac about the lack of adequate filtration on the PT's. It is amazing how company's get away with this kind of stuff. All the crud eventually ends up in the tank, with a little bit of filtering going on when the charge pump is replenishing fluid that is leaked into the case drains of the wheel motors, or the case drain from the tram pump. For those of you that don't have case drains, any crud developed in the wheel motor circuit, will just circulate in the closed loop system. If you foul one motor, the total circuit gets the same crud, including the tram pump.