pole barn questions

[JimMorrissey]

Two parts.....Hopefully the first one isn't too inflamatory....

First, wondering from those of you in pole barn country (very few in NE that I've seen) what the preferred method is to anchor the poles while minimizing rot? I've heard concrete poured to the top of the hole will rot the posts in very moist Vermont. I've heard others say it's best to pack the hole with tamped stone so the water doesn't sit permanently around the pole.

Second, what kind of price break can one expect to receive, if any, by going with a pole barn? I'm sure it's faster, but is it any less expensive in the end. A percentage figure will work.

Thanks...likely has been discussed before, but I don't want to wade through 1000s of pole barn discussions at the moment. I'll read them all in the near future as I have time.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

I just finished a 24X27 pole barn. I used 4X4 pressure treated poles. I used one 80 lb. bag of quickcrete per pole and tamped soil to fill the balance of the hole. I feel that rot will not be a problem with PT wood.

As for cost, my building cost me around $2500.00, me doing all the labor. It is 9 ft. ceiling height and I used 3:12 trusses on four ft. centers, metal sides and roof, two sliding 6 ft. doors (made with 2X4 frame and covered with metal), one metal residental style entry door, dirt floor. I used some recycled metal I had off an old barn for the sides so no cost there, new roof metal. As you can see, I was doing my best to keep the cost down.

I am satisfied with the finished product. It serves my needs well as storage for the tractor and other "stuff".

 

[BB_TX]

Have you followed <font color="blue"> this thread? </font> You really only need to look at pages 7, 8, & 9 to see the construction. Harvey has come up with a great way to do your own pole building. And we had a great get-together testing it out.
Can't really comment on cost difference.

 

[Farwell]

Jim,
I live in Mid Michigan and you would not believe the number of pole barns being constructed in this area. There are probably 5 large firms and more than 20 independent builders that do pole barns exclusively with in 30 miles of me.
I have a 30x40x10 foot pole barn. The posts are 4x6 pt lumber in the ground with 1 80lb bag of cement added dry. My soil is not too moist because of the sand on my property. The basic building built by an independent contractor was $6,000 3 years ago. This included metal siding, over hanging eves, composition roofing, dirt floor, two thermal windows, 1 walk through door and 1 10x12 sliding door. I added 1 inch foil backed foam insulation on all the walls, membrane and 2 inch foam insulation under 4 inches of cement, 10x12 roll up door. floor drain, and OSB ceiling around $10,000 more. Total cost was approximately $16,000. I added power, natural gas supply line and overhead heater for about $4000 more. So now I am into the building for about $20,000. I am currently in the process of adding 2x4 purlins on the inside of the 4x6s and am going to put 7/16 OSB horizontal around the base of the walls, 1/2 inch sheet rock for the upper part and fill the walls with blow in insulation. Probably another grand or two before I finish. With out all the extras I feel that a pole barn is cheaper than a stick built building and much quicker to build.
I have not seen any old pole barns in my area that seem to have a problem with wood rot. Guess I will find out in time if mine holds up.
Farwell

 

[beenthere]

Were the 4x4 posts recommended by an engineered plan? or your decision?

They seem to be on the thin side from what I would expect of posts holding a shed that size. My 24x24 have 6x6 treated posts with tamped crushed limestone packed around them.

 

[JimMorrissey]

That's great you could build something of that size for 2500 bucks.

 

[dullpain]

Don't ever worry about pole rot again with these! Perma Columns.

 

[dullpain]

Here they are installed. www.permacolumn.com/index.htm

 

[2nstonge]

Jim,

I'm in southern VT. My pole barn is about 15-18 years old, the posts sit on concrete (attached via a metal bracket) and ALL 18 posts are rotting at the base - even the ones in the center of the barn that don't get wet. Needless to say I'm not thrilled with having to rebuild all 18 ground connections next year but it's gotta be done.

I reallly think you'll need to isolate the wood from the concrete, and, keep the wood-concrete connection 1-2 feet off the ground to minimize contact with ground water, snow, and just splashing from the rain runoff.

Another consideration is sinking the concrete footings below the frost line. My aren't and some posts have heaved and some have sunk (which creates a nice pool of water for the wood post to sit in).

This guy Dick Walker Saw Mill does complete pole barn (& regular barn) kits, other saw mills in your area probably do too but I see his ads in some the papers. Might be worth a chat on pricing since he can quote both.

-Norm

 

[EddieWalker]

How long will poles last in the ground really depends on how well you prepair the soil and the quality of the poles. Has anybody ever heard of a power pole rotting out? Mostly they are replaced due to damage done to them. I guess they must rot eventually, but it's pretty rare.

PT lumber isn't as good as telephone poles, but they should still last an awful long time. I have no problem using what they sell at the lumber yard.

My soil is red clay. I pack the dirt and have good drainage to get the surface water away from the poles and building as fast as I can. I also use gutters, which I think really help to keep rain water away from the base of the building.

Price differences come into play most significantly with the cost of cement. A pole barn is usually a dirt floor, or maybe gravel. I poured 30 yards of concrete in my home/workshop. It's 48 feet by 48 feet with a 12 foot by 30 foot section without concrete. Concrete prices vary, but it's getting closer and closer to $100 a yard. Add labor and rebar and that's a $4,000 expense for just the floor.

If you want a concrete floor, then your savings disapear with a pole barn. Adding concrete at a later date is usually the plan, but the longer you wait, the more it will cost.

If you want a concrete floor, do it first, frame with wood, or consider a metal kit. Get it dried in, and worry about finishing off the interior at a later date to same up front expenses.

Eddie