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  1. #61
    Veteran Member Tororider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Paddy,
    That is a really cool website. I like the fact that they have some floorplans available, although I think I would find my own. Paddy and Erik, what are you paying there for a cubic yard of cement?

    Eric, sounds cool, you should post some pictures. What is SIP?

    This is one of the reasons that I am looking at these types buildings, because they are more friendly to do it yourselfers. Not that I couldn't frame out a house, but it would take my dad and I forever, and the added insulation/effieciency makes these very attractive for Michigan winters.
    Last edited by Tororider; 10-18-2007 at 10:26 AM.
    Tororider
    John Deere 4310
    Frontier Finish Mower, Wallenstein Bx62 Chipper, front end pallet forks, KK 5' Rototiller

    Check out my homestead blog at www.homesteaddad.com

  2. #62
    Super Member 3RRL's Avatar
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    Foothills of the Giant Sequoia's, California
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    55HP 4WD KAMA 554 and 4 x 4 Jinma 284

    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Patrick,
    Too bad about your camera because I sure would like to see the pour. You say your wife got some pictures though? Did I read that right?

    I can relate about selling your house too, since I will have to do the same withing the next year. Hope housing goes up by then. It is way down currently, at least out here. And I could use every penny out of it.
    Rob-
    ...The Older I get...the Better I Used to be...
    Member of the Month

  3. #63
    Elite Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy
    The outside is ready for any standard siding as well as stuco. I will use stuco due to the design. Windows can be 'trimed out with foam. just paint/texture a different color. This stuco method is very close to EFIS. You see alot of comercial building finished this way, foam and stuco. Several sites offer the material, fiber mesh, adhessive backing and the final topping for about $1.50 sq-ft.
    Be careful with using any of the EIFS (Exterior Insulation & Finish Systems).
    This type of synthetic stucco is normally applied in very thin total thickness,
    resulting in an easily damaged surface if subjected to even minor inpacts.
    I have advised ICF users who want stucco to use conventional Portland-based (PB) stucco over mechanically-fastened paper-less lath. If the users
    wants one of the polymer-modified (PM) final coats (water-resistant and
    more colors), they should use it over PB scratch and brown coats. My
    own house is 3-coat PB, for a total of 1" thickness. 3rd coat is a color-coat.

    Fox Blocks is a very interesting vendor in that they sell direct to users,
    quote prices on their website, and cost less than most others. Before
    they come out with their own ICF, I believe some of my Polysteel
    shipments were made in that factory in NE. Many (most?) ICF vendors
    in the US have gone to contract factories for production, vs. owning
    their own factories.

  4. #64
    Platinum Member
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    hoyt, Ks
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    century 2535

    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Tororider
    SIP is a Structural Insulated Panel -- think 1/2" OSB and 6" styrofoam sandwich in 4' wide sheets with 2x stock at the edges to tie the panels together.

    There are several versions on the market, we picked the one we did beceuse the wife and I really liked their level of finish work at the doors and windoes - and the way the panels lock together at the seams still left a foam core to limit heat loss through the lumber. (insulspan, enercept, polysteel, etc...)

    Do a net search on them and be ready for an education in insulation values.


    To give you an idea of speed in assembly, house footprint is 32X44 - we started assembling the basement blocks on a wednesday around noon, and poured our walls Friday around 3. 4 guys assembling blocks

    Same story on the main floor - we put up the first panel at a corner on Wednesday (a month later) at 11 and the last roof panel was screwed down Friday at 7:30 PM. 6 people - 3 setting walls, 2 prepping panels, 1 on the lift. 2 of those people were my 70 year old dad and my 5'3" wife.

    Unfortunately, the computer with these pictures on it died in January.
    the rest of the project is going slow because it's just me and the wife on the weekends as we both work regular jobs to pay for our tool habits, but we're getting there!
    Erik
    Mahindra 3510, box blade, pallet forks, 6' KK mower...

  5. #65
    Veteran Member Tororider's Avatar
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    SE Michigan
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    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Cool, I have seen those panels on "This Old House", they are very nice.

    Too bad about the cpu, did you take it to a cpu repain facility, they can probably salvage your memory so you can get the pictures back.
    Tororider
    John Deere 4310
    Frontier Finish Mower, Wallenstein Bx62 Chipper, front end pallet forks, KK 5' Rototiller

    Check out my homestead blog at www.homesteaddad.com

  6. #66
    Platinum Member
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    Bloomington, IN
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    Kubota, G5200, KAMA 454

    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    dfkrug,

    The thin stuco has it's down side. Dents can be repaired but what I don't like the most is the hollow feel when you knock on it! Having all that concrete and it feels light weight. Scratch coat seems like a ton of work. I had considered using concrete backer board but that is very pricy when thinking whole house.

    Patrick T

  7. #67
    Elite Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    05 Kioti CK30HST w/ Prairie Dog backhoe

    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy
    The thin stuco has it's down side. Dents can be repaired but what I don't like the most is the hollow feel when you knock on it! Having all that concrete and it feels light weight. Scratch coat seems like a ton of work. I had considered using concrete backer board but that is very pricy when thinking whole house.
    Even if the stucco is 1" thick, it sounds hollow when you strike it.
    Conventional stucco IS a lot of work. It is one of those jobs that is
    WAY more efficiently done by those who do it for a living. Don't get me
    wrong, it can be a DIY job, but it takes a long time and is very tiring on the
    arm. For my house I hired 2 pros after I did all the lathing and I did
    all the mud mixing with my tractor mixer. Saved me more than half.
    I firmly believe in having a fire-resistant exterior finish. Fire is a bigger
    concern vs earthquakes.

    I just started the finish on my 20-ft ICF retaining wall and I have
    dreaded doing stucco. I just bought a couple of pallets of ceramic
    tile instead, and it is easier to apply. HomeDepot had 16x16s on sale
    for only 50c/sf.

  8. #68
    Super Member mjncad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy
    dfkrug,

    The thin stuco has it's down side. Dents can be repaired but what I don't like the most is the hollow feel when you knock on it! Having all that concrete and it feels light weight. Scratch coat seems like a ton of work. I had considered using concrete backer board but that is very pricy when thinking whole house.

    Patrick T
    Woodpeckers love that thin stucco and EIFS stuff too. They made a mess out of it on one NREL's research buildings when I used to work there. National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) Home Page
    Paraphrasing Douglas Adams - So long and thanks for all the bacon.

  9. #69
    Elite Member dfkrug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    Quote Originally Posted by mjncad
    Woodpeckers love that thin stucco and EIFS stuff too. They made a mess out of it on one NREL's research buildings when I used to work there. National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) Home Page
    I have not seen that, but it makes sense. I have seen the results of
    the thin stucco systems around here. There is a wall at a country club
    in San Jose that looks like crap now because of minor impacts after
    being built 15-20 y ago. Of course, many ignorant folks blame the ICF
    for the problem when, in fact, it was the choice of finish.

    BTW, even my ceramic tile finish sounds hollow when you tap it. It is
    due to the acoustics of the EPS foam layer underneath.

  10. #70
    Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Concrete ICF home continues

    dfkrug,

    Most homes have a limited 'impact' area. Dang those kids with baseballs! But let's face it, most wall space is free from likely impacts. I could use the cement backer, 1/2", over 1-1/2" foam to match 2" foam elsewhere. But in the big picture, dents can be repaired. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a concrete exterior that would be 30-30 proof but insulation is more key today

    I went out to the house site today after my travels to Europe last weeks..My son and his friend have just about got the gravel filled for the slab on grade. Now the hard word to smoth it for foam/Radant heat tubes.

    Patrick T

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