Taking down trees with tractor help

[davitk]

To add to Pat's post, the way I understand it is good old boys minimum safety requirement = cooler full of ice. We all know warm beer sucks.

[patrick_g]

Originally Posted by RonMar

large doublebraid nylon line is great for this, as you can load it up like a rubber band. It will continue to apply force to a tree in the directin of pull for quite a while(whatever distance you stretched it to) after the tree starts to move. It is best to pull it around something else such as a block anchored to another tree, as it can store a considerable ammount of energy and you never want to be directly in line with it. People who do much 4 wheeling have probably seen this used to great effect, using the energy of a moving vehicle to transfer energy in a stretched nylon tow strap to loosen another stuck vehicle. You just need to stay out of the possible line of flight if it should snap...

There are a couple considerations... If you have ever been in the drivers seat of a tow vehicle using this method and had a metal tow hook doing over mach 1 fly through your back glass, seat back, and windshield without stopping you wonder if maybe there is need to examine this approach.

As stated you NEVER want to stay in line with the rope under tension. Another good idea is to never attach a metal tow hook to the end of the line or the last thing to go through your mind if something goes wrong may be the tow hook doing several hundred miles per hour at time of impact. A turning block (sheave) can double the force on the sheaves attachment and cause a mechanical failure with a result of the block becoming a missile.

I too recommend the use of a good nylon rope for getting a tree to fall where you want it. Except for natural lean, unbalanced branches (poor symmetry of the foliage), or wind, you should be able to drop a tree close to where you want with NO ROPE. Unfortunately many times at least one of the above listed problems prompts someone to say, "somebody get a rope!"

Be smart, have a clue as to the working strength of the rope and how hard you are pulling on it. Percent of elongation is a good indication. Never stretch it beyond the recommended limit for that type rope (double yacht braid, 3 strand twisted, or whatever. A smart self defense move is to securely tie a piece of tarp, large towel, or similar to each end of the rope. If either end comes lose the "parachute" you tied on will dramatically reduce the velocity of the rope and can save a life.

In theory you can pull the rope out to its rated elongation, stop the work vehicle (tractor or...) get out and get away from being in direct line with the stretched rope and return to sawing the tree (keeping the tree between you and the rope) and only be in danger while driving the tractor. At this point you have a choice to make. Do I use a turning block to get the tractor and I over to the side out of the way? Will it be safer? Yes if the block stays attached to something throughout the exercise and does not fail. If it fails or comes loose you have a heavy missile flying through the air at high speed.

I use only blocks that are in good shape, much stronger than the line going through them, and secure them to something much stronger than the block. To do less is to play Russian roulette with anything in range of the missile, your tractor, window, wife, kid, livestock, your helper, yourself...

You may have been around ropes and cables your entire life but until you witness the extreme release of energy and the speeds attained by rope ends (with or without metal fittings attached) you just have no appreciation for the potential destructive force. It is like the example a guy gave recently in another post. (I paraphrase) He said he could describe bull riding to you till you "got it" but till you were on the bull and out of the gate you would still not have a clue.

Pat

[RonMar]

Originally Posted by patrick_g

There are a couple considerations... If you have ever been in the drivers seat of a tow vehicle using this method and had a metal tow hook doing over mach 1 fly through your back glass, seat back, and windshield without stopping you wonder if maybe there is need to examine this approach.
Pat

Pat
That is a prime example of how much force can be stored/applied

Love your tag line at the bottom...

[patrick_g]

Originally Posted by RonMar

Pat
That is a prime example of how much force an be stored/applied

Love your tag line at the bottom...

Agreed on the force thing, sort of, actually you store energy.

After my 10 years experience in SAR work out of San Diego I can tell you about towing with nylon. First you take a little strain on the boat being towed in and then relax your throttle(s) and let the tow line(s) dip into the ocean and then take another strain. Beginners have a hard time believing you when you tell them how much heat is generated in a nylon rope under a strain but when they see the clouds of steam coming off the wet ropes they get the picture. You can get rope failure from melting strands of nylon in the rope, not just exceeding the ropes tensile strength. This melting damage is cumulative and NOT self healing. After sufficient damage is accrued the rope is significantly weaker than when new. The bad news is a rope can be severely damaged and weakened on its first use (abuse) and not show it so it is then an accident waiting for a chance to happen. It gives you something to think about when you buy a used rope, loan a rope to someone, or just use one over time. When will it become dangerously weakened?

Oh and about the tag... I heard that Monica recently registered as a republican, claiming the democrats just left a bad taste.

Pat

[Egon]

We all know warm beer sucks.
__________________

Don't tell the Brits that.

[Egon]

Rope?? Isn't that something that is rolled up on a spool??

One place I used to work there were many times the trucks would become stuck. A nylon LINE was used between two vehicles for towing. Many times the line would snap [ Bumper to bumper start and run] resulting in the requirement for new windows and radiators. Fortunetly no got hurt. Darvin messed up here!

[shawn1533]

Originally Posted by Egon

Tacking down trees with a tractor can be done if there is a correlation to tractor size and tree!!

Egon,

One time I was doing the same thing you are showing in your picture with a similar size tree. The tree sheered from the bucket and the pointed top quickly slid over the bucket toward me. This happened so fast that I could not react. I feel I was real lucky when the tree got hung up and stopped short of my head. That was the last day I tried to push trees over! We now tie small trees as high as possible with a rope and from a safe distance pull the tree by hand in the direction we want it to fall. I have also seen large trees move equipment (trucks and logging machines) that were cabled to them! These trees I leave to the pro's.

[gemini5362]

Originally Posted by patrick_g

Agreed on the force thing, sort of, actually you store energy.

After my 10 years experience in SAR work out of San Diego I can tell you about towing with nylon. First you take a little strain on the boat being towed in and then relax your throttle(s) and let the tow line(s) dip into the ocean and then take another strain. Beginners have a hard time believing you when you tell them how much heat is generated in a nylon rope under a strain but when they see the clouds of steam coming off the wet ropes they get the picture. You can get rope failure from melting strands of nylon in the rope, not just exceeding the ropes tensile strength. This melting damage is cumulative and NOT self healing. After sufficient damage is accrued the rope is significantly weaker than when new. The bad news is a rope can be severely damaged and weakened on its first use (abuse) and not show it so it is then an accident waiting for a chance to happen. It gives you something to think about when you buy a used rope, loan a rope to someone, or just use one over time. When will it become dangerously weakened?

Oh and about the tag... I heard that Monica recently registered as a republican, claiming the democrats just left a bad taste.

Pat

Pat, first of all the monica comment was a real groaner.

second I have seen the destructive power of a snapped 2 inch nylon rope. The destroyer I was on was trying to pull out in a fairly heavy current. We had a tug that was too small for our weight. We had a 2 inch rope running from the fantail ( back end of the boat for your landlubbers) to the tug. When he could not pull us out he backed up about 50 feet. We could not figure out what he was doing till we saw a big plume of smoke come out of the exhaust stack and realized he was getting a run at it. Everyone on the fantail went running for the weather hatch to the inside of the ship. The guys that could not make that ran for ladders to get up on a higher level and forward. When the tug hit the end of the rope you could see the rope stretching and when it broke the rope tore several things off of the deck as it whipped into them. At that point some wisdom came into play and we tied back up to the pier until a bigger tug could come and pull us out.

[patrick_g]

Originally Posted by Egon

Don't tell the Brits that.

Egon, when I was in London I was bracing myself for warm beer but was mildly surprised to find they drink their beer cool, just not super cold like it is often served in the US. Being the thorough researcher that I am I didn't settle for just one or two samples, I visited a lot of pubs to get a statistically significant sample.

Pat

[RonMar]

Originally Posted by patrick_g

Agreed on the force thing, sort of, actually you store energy.

After my 10 years experience in SAR work out of San Diego I can tell you about towing with nylon. First you take a little strain on the boat being towed in and then relax your throttle(s) and let the tow line(s) dip into the ocean and then take another strain. Beginners have a hard time believing you when you tell them how much heat is generated in a nylon rope under a strain but when they see the clouds of steam coming off the wet ropes they get the picture. You can get rope failure from melting strands of nylon in the rope, not just exceeding the ropes tensile strength. This melting damage is cumulative and NOT self healing. After sufficient damage is accrued the rope is significantly weaker than when new. The bad news is a rope can be severely damaged and weakened on its first use (abuse) and not show it so it is then an accident waiting for a chance to happen. It gives you something to think about when you buy a used rope, loan a rope to someone, or just use one over time. When will it become dangerously weakened?

Oh and about the tag... I heard that Monica recently registered as a republican, claiming the democrats just left a bad taste.

Pat

You are correct, energy, not force... Sounds like we have some similar experiences...