Solar Electric Project

[RichNJKubota]

I used to subscribe to HomePower magazine. Then I dropped the subscription because where I lived was not suitable for PV or other alternative power (middle of small town on tiny lots and lots of trees). But the seeds were planted. We moved and now I live in a solar heated house with PV system and solar hot water system. The house is zero-energy - meaning the solar systems produce all the energy the house needs.
That's why I asked allot of questions. And I see you too have the bug to be more self sufficient. Of course, you have to be since you have no connection to the grid. We are grid tied here.
Peter - you may want to consider a solar hot water system. We have no backup. Just solar hot water and so far we've done OK. It's been running now for about 10 months. There were a few days in the dead of winter when we washed dishes by hand and either took warmish showers or waited for a sunny day. On sunny days in the winter there is enough hot water left over to provide a bit of heat to the house.
One day I'll put a small electric whole house instant hot water heater for backup. Probably before next winter.

[saltman]

Great info. I am going to be going through the same thing as you in about a year. The difference being that I am way south of you and have way less energy demands due to the temperatures and consistant sunlight. I am in San Diego County and my location gets maybe 7 inches of rain/ cloudy weather a year. (few days a year)

My home will be off grid and as in Vermont no incentives for any rebates here in California unless your on grid.

My system will be just a big larger than your original system to power a 1700 square foot house. I will use propane for heat, to operate the stove, hot water heater and the back up generator. I may add a panel so I can use a regular Refrigerator so I will have about 1500 watts of solar panels.

Am I being too optimistic to think I can power a well insulated and totally low energy designed home in a warm climate with 4.5-6 kilowatt system?

I am a conservationist.. (frugal) and my on grid power consumption in and old leaky house with old appliances/ T.V's I use double what I plan for my new home.

[hayden]

Glad to see another addict. My name is Peter, and I have a solar system. I haven't touched the grid for years.

I haven't done hot water and would like to one day. I just haven't had the time to learn enough to design a system, confirm it will meet out needs, etc. I think it's one of the more effective ways to directly tap solar energy and is too easily overlooked by most people, including me. One more project to add to the list......

[hayden]

Saltman,

Glad to hear you are joining the ranks... and glad to see you are looking at your overall energy consumption as part of moving off-grid. The economics of conservation is way better than power generation. Besides, blind consumption is a big part of our current energy problem and people need to become more aware of the energy consequences of everything they do.

I think a 4-6KW system will be plenty. Unless you have electric heat, cooking stove, AC, a FHA heating system, or some other large device it will be more than enough. In the 8 years or so of using a 4KW system we have never maxed it out, and we never pay attention to what's running at the same time. I've seen the microwave and a hair dryer running at the same time and nothing trips. The better inverters can all crank out a good bit more than their rated power for a number of minutes which will cover almost any situation. I actually think many inverter installations are grossly oversized, but that's a different thread.

I've also found the 4KW generator to be more than enough even though it's quite small. I could charge my batteries a little bit faster with a bigger generator, but not by a lot since I'm almost running at the max charge rate for the battery bank size. Also, propane (and gas and nat gas as well) generators are most efficient at or near full power, so having them fully loaded while you are charging is generally good. An oversized generater will just run lightly and inefficiently and waste fuel. The inverter chargers and/or the battery bank size will also limit how fast you can charge the batteries and consequently how much load it's possible to put in the generator.

[jim_n_nh]

You most likely know of this but near Rutland in July is Solarfest. I have gone for several years... While not offgrid I have reduce my electric load to almost nothing. Super insulated house heated by passive solar and a Woodstock woodstove.

[srossman]

Originally Posted by RichNJKubota

One day I'll put a small electric whole house instant hot water heater for backup. Probably before next winter.

Rich, It's great to see someone fairly close by that has gone completely solar. I've had the seed planted in my head for a while now, and wasn't sure if it would be feasible to try and go off the grid.
You may want to look into a propane fired whole house hot water heater. When my water heater when last year, I looked at an electric whole house hot water heater and determined that it takes a lot of electricity to be able to run the electric on demand hot water heaters, and the gpm wasn't that good.

[TDVT]

Great to see your project. I know it's becoming more common & practical even way up here in VT. I have a big stack of HOME POWER magazines myself.

We had done the preliminary stuff for a grid-tied system but the expense was still too high. Then we went a bought a new tractor, then re-did the roof & shot the solar project all to @#$%. But the kids are off in school so our power consumption has dropped quite a bit. We'll get to it eventually.

I have some solar HW panels I bought surplus, sitting in the barn (for a few years now) & had thought about finally setting them up on a pole mount as you are doing. So I will be paying close attention!

[mikim]

When solar is your only option it's worth it ... but to try to go total solar when utility is available with cost savings in mind ... it's just not there. Initial expense of solar has a 10+ yr payback not counting maintenance and replacement. There just isn't any cost savings there at all. And I have a perfect location for a major solar system on the south facing barn roof -- but it just cost too darn much yet. NOW saying that -- I have every intention of using solar here and there as a convenience thing on a limited scale. Outdoor light at the well house. Water pump on a rainwater collection system (to supply the house when/if the well goes out). Lighting & fans at the greenhouse....etc. I wish you and everyone that goes solar the absolute best -- and hope more folks do get into it so as to hopefully drive prices down to make it more feasible for everybody. If more states and utilities like in Cal. would subsidize it better - we could really reduce our use of fossil fuels.

[jim_wilson]

It has been a while since I have on TBN - I have been doing some research here and there to figure out if solar electric is a viable option for me. In the past TBN has always been a good source of info for these types of things so I figured I would start checking thru the posts here. MA has put in place a Solar power incentive program which aims to bring the cost of a solar system down - but from my calculations still not down enough to make it a feasible alternative to being on grid. At least not where I am located.

Does anybody have any links to where I could learn more about solar electric power? The Homepower magazine looks interesting - I will check that out.

Any other recommended reading to do - or companies that supply solar equipment?

BTW - I also ran across the thread where you had the pics of the new tractor Peter - pretty nice.

[hayden]

Originally Posted by mikim

When solar is your only option it's worth it ... but to try to go total solar when utility is available with cost savings in mind ... it's just not there. Initial expense of solar has a 10+ yr payback not counting maintenance and replacement. There just isn't any cost savings there at all. And I have a perfect location for a major solar system on the south facing barn roof -- but it just cost too darn much yet. NOW saying that -- I have every intention of using solar here and there as a convenience thing on a limited scale. Outdoor light at the well house. Water pump on a rainwater collection system (to supply the house when/if the well goes out). Lighting & fans at the greenhouse....etc. I wish you and everyone that goes solar the absolute best -- and hope more folks do get into it so as to hopefully drive prices down to make it more feasible for everybody. If more states and utilities like in Cal. would subsidize it better - we could really reduce our use of fossil fuels.

I agree. Off-grid, it makes economic sense right from the start. On-grid, it currently only makes economic sense if there are sufficient rebates. That said, there are lots of people to whom being eco-friendly trumps economics. They are the pioneers who will help drive the volumes that will broaden access to those who only consider the economics. We should thank them for their forward thinking and for paving the road for those less adventurous.