Pole Shed Project - Input Always Welcome

[DocD]

The Pex tubing will actually be wired/stapled to the insulation (I am not sure of the difference between expanded and extruded - only know it is the 250 high density). My contractor will be responsible for any "major" cracking that will take place in the concrete and he says that the fiber mesh will do just fine as long as I am not parking full dumptrucks on the cement and it will always be protected inside the shed and heated so will not be effected by the elements.

As far as the lighting....is the highbay better than fluorescent??? I guess I don't know alot about different lighting - only know that fluorescent is better than incandescent lighting.

With off-peak electricity it will definately be way cheaper than propane at close to or over $2/gallon.

Thanks,
DW

[Danno1]

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I'd want rebar if it was my floor.......................

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[tommu56]

DocD

I had an electric boiler on my old house it was only 24 x 28 1 1/2 story I took it out after 2 wintes it spun the electric meter so fast I though it would wear out I had one monthly bill back in 1983 of around $450.00
I plumbed in a fuel oil boiler in in 1985 and my whole winter bill was just over $700.00

I wouldent suggest that any one put one in unless you had free electric.

tommu

[mjncad]

Originally Posted by DocD

The Pex tubing will actually be wired/stapled to the insulation (I am not sure of the difference between expanded and extruded - only know it is the 250 high density). My contractor will be responsible for any "major" cracking that will take place in the concrete and he says that the fiber mesh will do just fine as long as I am not parking full dumptrucks on the cement and it will always be protected inside the shed and heated so will not be effected by the elements.

As far as the lighting....is the highbay better than fluorescent??? I guess I don't know alot about different lighting - only know that fluorescent is better than incandescent lighting.

With off-peak electricity it will definately be way cheaper than propane at close to or over $2/gallon.

Thanks,
DW

You'll find high bay lighting in any Home Depot, Wally-World, etc. They are the lights with the round acrylic diffusers on them and are about 24" in diameter. High bay lighting is generally used because one can get a lot of light out of one fixture versus a bunch of fluorescent fixtures high on the ceiling. I'd rather change one bulb than a bunch of tubes, even though fluorescent do last a long time. Remember, light in all forms is subject to the "inverse square law of the propagation of light." In other words, if you move a light source 2 feet further away, the light intensity striking the surface is diminished by 4 times. Lithonia makes lots of lighting of all kinds and I would hope they have their photometric data on their web site.

Forgive me for harping on the concrete concerns I have; but will your contractor move your shop equipment and supplies to a secure covered storage area while he repairs the concrete and PEX tubing? Will he repair/replace any damage done to your property? I don't know what kind of soils you have in Minnesota; but all of my exterior flat-work including the garage is falling apart because the cheap builder didn't put any kind of reinforcement in the concrete. The concrete looks like crap after only 5-years of service and the house is now 8.5 years old.

Expanded polystyrene foam tends to be cheaper, lighter, and flakes more when cut. It is similar to the packing foam most electronics manufactures use in their packaging. Extruded polystyrene is denser; but still is light weight, and if I'm not mistaken, it is a closed cell foam which doesn't wick water the way open cell foams of any kind will. Take a run to Depot and take a look at the difference as they carry both.

Stapling, clipping or wiring the PEX to the foam will have very little resistance to movement when the concrete is poured. Take a piece of wire, stick it in some Styrofoam and see how easy it is to pull out, move, etc.

I'm surprised the electric boiler will be cheaper for you to run, and if it is...go for it.

[wedge40]

As I was reading this thread, and believe me I read almost any thread about pole buildings, I have a question. The OP is putting in radiant floor heating and will keep at 55. Just how warm do most people heat their work shop in the winter when they are working out there. I'm not sure but I would think that 60 or 65 would be more than enough.
I would like to hear from the masses what temp they have their shop at in the winter.

Doc - sorry about stealling the thread, but this seemed as good a place as any.

Wedge

[keving]

Originally Posted by wedge40

As I was reading this thread, and believe me I read almost any thread about pole buildings, I have a question. The OP is putting in radiant floor heating and will keep at 55. Just how warm do most people heat their work shop in the winter when they are working out there. I'm not sure but I would think that 60 or 65 would be more than enough.
I would like to hear from the masses what temp they have their shop at in the winter.

Doc - sorry about stealling the thread, but this seemed as good a place as any.

Wedge

55-65 for me

[mjncad]

DocD:

I've attached an AutoCAD to PDF drawing I quickly did today illustrating how I would do the slab if I were building a pole barn at the moment, and how not to build a slab based on how I've interpreted what your contractor has told you.

Remember, my drawing is nothing more than a suggestion, and is not to be construed as an official engineering drawing, blah, blah, blah, etc.

If you study the Incorrect Slab, having the PEX at the bottom of the slab essentially creates a whole floor of control joints just waiting to crack. Without rebar, or at the very least WWF (Welded Wire Fabric), the slab can go in all sorts of directions from the heat-cold cycles experienced in Minnesota. Plus I have no idea what the soils are like there; but if they are expansive like they are here, your expensive slab will become a cracked nightmare very quickly.

If you look at the Correct Slab, you will see a vapor barrier as the insulation board does not act as a vapor barrier. Ideally, you want a nominal 3" of concrete coverage over all rebar and/or WWF, and PEX tubing. Another reason I'm suggesting a 6" slab is that way the PEX will be far enough below the concrete's surface for protection.

Also, your contractor said he will pour a 4" slab. Is that a nominal 4" slab using 2x4's (1-1/2"x3-1/2") as the form, or is it a true 4" thick? If it's a nominal 4" slab, your floor just got 1/2" thinner and will be even more prone to cracking.

If you decide to add rebar and/or WWF, make sure the contractor uses "chairs" or "dobies" as I've heard some call them to keep the reinforcement in the center of the pour. It will do no good if it sinks to the bottom, and too many contractors rely on the help to pull the reinforcement to approximately center during the pour and before any finishing has occurred.

I'd just hate to see your dream shop turn into an expensive nightmare because the contractor was lazy.

[bigtiller]

mjncad

How far apart would you want the rebar spaced?

[mjncad]

Originally Posted by bigtiller

mjncad

How far apart would you want the rebar spaced?

Good question, and I would think 24" minimum O.C. (on center) would suffice; but I would ask a structural engineer to be certain. If you could go wider, great as that would save on rebar costs.