Drain Tile Question

[Spark_man]

Here's the story. We live on our 15 acres for about 15 years - all open field that had been in grass hay (a neighbor cuts and bales and I get 1/2 for my two horses). Well the hay was starting to look pretty bad and we decided to till the whole thing and plant a crop of wheat, then drill timothy/orchard grass over it. The theory was that the wheat would come up, protect the grasses, we harvest the wheat and next year we have a new hay field. Simple. This all happened last fall. My next door neighbor - "down hill" - decided he didn't want any run off from the chemicals (burned down the existing weeds and grasses before tilling) running into his pond and killing his catfish. So, while I wasn't paying attention, he brought in about 15 ten-wheel loads of fill and essentially dammed up the normal drainage off the field. I now have a 1 acre pond about 1 foot deep that is a wonderful mosquito hatchery. Although the ducks seem to love it, am not too happy about the whole thing. I spoke to the neighbor and he is blowing me off. I talked to the county extension agent's office and they state that there are laws that prevent him from doing what he did, but that means I would have to get a lawyer, take a friend to court, etc. Too much hassle and I'd turn a friend into an enemy in the process. So, long story short, I need to put in some drain tile and run all this off of my property, keeping it away from his pond. No problem. However, the extension agent suggested installing a "Higginbotham drain" rather than a tile well (something I am familiar with) at the surface. Does anybody know a) what is a "higginbotham drain" and b) where can I find one?

 

[wedge40]

You have different definition of "friend" than I do. None of my friends would have done it this way.. We would have sat down together and figured out a way to work around having the chemicals go into his pond. I'm thinking get an excavator in there and dig out that one acre and make your own pond. You can spray for mosquito's. This also depends on whether you have your own equipment to work the fields and bale the hay. If not, find a new "friend" and move on.

Wedge

 

[ampsucker]

agreed, that's not very friendly or neighborly.

in kansas, the law is you can't substantially divert the natural flow of the water from the way it was before you bought the land unless every body agrees. that means, for example, if you build a pond, the overflow from the pond should still leave the area in roughly the same place it did before you build the pond. if you do it that way, the neighbors can't biatch about it.

what they did wouldn't fly. given you don't want to go the legal route, i think putting in a pond of your own might be the easiest route if you want a pond. you'll have to wait until it dries up though to build your dam correctly, what he did isn't a proper dam and won't hold much water. you need the pond to be deep enough that it will support fish and then you won't have a mosquito problem. meanwhile, some mosquito "dunks" (the bacteria b.t.) will keep the larva from developing.

i suppose if you do build a pond and you do follow the rule about leaving the spillway in the natural spot where it occured before, it would just flow over his little dam and still flow into his pond. ;-)

not sure what chemicals you used that would be a problem in a pond anyway. planting wheat and grasses in a pasture shouldn't require many chemicals past the initial glyphosate kill which you could and most likely did avoid by tilling or plowing/discing before you planted.

the whole thing sounds pretty hookey to me...

amp

 

[Spark_man]

According to my neighbor, before we moved here, the farmer that was leasing this property did put something on the field right before a storm and the run off killed most of his fish - I've been hearing this story for years. So, I understand where he is coming from and why he did what he did. According to our Soil Conservation folks, the law is similar here - what he did is clearly illegal. But what he did doesn't make him any less of a friend and I still have to live next door to him. Plus, we've helped each other out a lot over the years. Yeah, it wasn't the best way to handle the "problem", but taking him to court isn't a reasonable alternative.

While I could and may yet dig a pond - I certainly don't want one where the water has built up. I thought about running a drain from the low spot to where I would want a pond, but the problem there is that if I hit a spring, the overflow would go back throught that drain and I'd have two ponds! Not exactly what I want. I did think about digging a ditch with a box blade to where the grade drops off, but I think installing drain tile to that point would be better. I think my only option (other than relying on the court system) is to install the drain.

My question remains - has anybody heard of a "higginbotham drain" and where can I get one? I have googled and yahoo!'d it and keep coming up empty.

 

[Fossil Farm]

A higgenbottom drain is basically a stand pipe that connects to the subsurface tile to allow surface water into the tile line. It has smaller holes below ground level and larger holes above ground level. Gravel is placed around the stand pipe. There is an orifice that fits in the stand pipe so as not to cause pressure on the drain tile and blow out the subsurface drainage pipe. Drainage tile is not manufactured to withstand pressure - basically it cannot handle having 100 percent of the pipe flowing full of water.
Standpipes are used in farm drainage practices called "WASCOBS." Those are Water And Sediment COntrol BaSins. Long slopes are broken up so the rainwater (or irrigation water maybe) does not pick up alot of steam and erode the field too badly. You could make your own standpipe drain fairly easily if this will appease your "friendly neighbor." Good luck

 

[Fossil Farm]

Ahh - finally found my catalog. The real name is "hickenbottom" and they have a website if you want to look at them. If you do put in subsurface drainage, don't forget to call your state's underground utility protection service.

 

[Spark_man]

Ahh - finally found my catalog. The real name is "hickenbottom" and they have a website if you want to look at them. If you do put in subsurface drainage, don't forget to call your state's underground utility protection service.

Ahhh So! No wonder I couldn't find it. For anyone that might be interested the website is HANCOR - Corrugated High Density Polyethylene Pipe

 

[plowking]

Hancor is a distributor of the hickenbottom drain. ADS and others are distributors as well. I deal with Eliminator[ local company] or Ferguson Water Works for my materials.The pipe is going to have to be buried 12 inches or more to get H-20 loading for vehicles that cross over it. Not sure if fabric has to be laid over tile above the gravel or peastone around pipe, when it leaves pond and crosses the field. There are units that can be buried to store runoff water. Malls use them under parking lots to hold rain water so as not to lose parking spaces. My son-in-law has a neighbor who drains his duck pond under their stone wall onto their land, thru a control valve or some kind of gate when water gets high. Same neighbor calls DES[environmental services on son-in-law ,daughter] cause kids have horses,worried about their manure. Not a smart move,seeing his pond drains on their land. plowking

 

[EddieWalker]

According to my neighbor, before we moved here, the farmer that was leasing this property did put something on the field right before a storm and the run off killed most of his fish - I've been hearing this story for years.

Does he use the term "something" or does he actually know what was used?

For allot of reasons, people will put the blame on an event based on reasons of their own, but not something that they can prove. Usually when pressed for details, you will find out that it's more of a perception then a fact that drives their decisions.

I was talking to another builder/remodeler last week. He told me that Hardi siding causes cancer and that it gave his son cancer. He hates Hardi siding and was trying to talk me out of using it. I've read a few of the claims of cancer and Hardi, but don't find the claims credible. Anyway, when I asked for details, he changed the subject, got defensive and even attacked me for being stuborn and "one of those" types who refuse to listen. After awhile, he finally told me that his son got brain cancer and that he had cut some Hardi siding six months earlier. In his opinion, that was the only thing it could be, and it's what caused his cancer.

There are allot of reasons for a fish die off in a pond after a rain. It's actually very common when massive amounts of oxigenated water is added to a stagnant pond that is down on it's oxygen level. The change is too much for the fish and it kills off allot of them. It's very quick when it happens.

Chemicals might have been the cause, but then again they might not have. Finding out what was spread, if anything, and learnign what they do should have been the first thing he did.

My guess is that he did ask what was spread, probably accused the farmer of killing his fish, and when he was told what was used and that it was impossible for it to kill his fish, he refused to listen and has lived with his version of what happened ever since.

It's just hard to believe that so many chemicals were used to cause that to happen. It's extremely wasteful to apply them in such large quantities that they will not delute in a heavy rain. It's also hard to believe that with all the restrictions on what is allowed to be used that something that kills fish was used. If it's true, then all the fish around every field that this "stuff" is used will be killing fish everywhere. Does anybody think that's really happening in this day and age?

Sorry to hear about your neighbor, but it sounds like his mind is made up and he will refuse to listen to facts.

Eddie

 

[deereguy]

I agree with Eddie, it sounds like his pond "turned over" and he blamed the farmer for the chemicals that were applied. I heard a pond turns over when it is silted up too much (not deep) and the fish can't breath from too much oxygen in the water coming in (or something to that effect).

Good Luck with your situation and glad to hear you got an answer to your question.